51. Thought Loops

you are listening to the Beyond The High Road podcast with Shelby Milford episode number 51. stay tuned welcome to be on the hybrid hey you guys how are my lovely parents doing today we're going to be talking about thought loops specifically the negative kind because what else would we talk about here so first a couple announcements before we continue on with the episode a couple things so again if you're watching me you might chuckle to yourself a little bit because I I you don't even need the to know the reason but I've got two different files now three including this right here for the episode today I lost the file because I am me and so I ended up re-recording it and

then sound the file anyway so I did a pick and choose of the things that I liked the most from both of these recordings which of course took a very long time to put together that's not your issue that's mine because I'm a little silly in the brain that's number one but two also because of the fact that I again have this extra material I'm going to be publishing it into the private Facebook group one of the bits that I have I don't know what's a few minutes long is actually I really wanted to just tack it into like put it into this episode but it's already you guys tend to when I look at the analytics y'all don't really like it when I go over 30 minutes it seems like there's

like a drop off level so I'm going to pop that into the private Facebook group okay if you haven't joined already then I'll put a link into the end of the show notes also this is important I want you guys to hear it I'm going to be doing an ask me anything thingy this weekend I know it's last minute but this is how I do so I roll and I think I'm gonna do it start doing it on a very regular basis maybe we're going to start with this Saturday but I I need to get you guys input as far as like days time so this week I'm doing it on Saturday just because I know that not everybody's off work on Saturdays but the majority of you I think will be so these bangs y'all they're driving me insane you know

anyway so I'm gonna do it this Saturday at 1pm Eastern Daylight time so ask me anything I'll be there I'm gonna just bring all have some work here to do and I'm just gonna stay on all broadcast it in the private Facebook group again okay so it'll be there and you can just show up into that group if you have any questions for me okay anything at all I mean you know mostly anything at all if it's about you okay so that is that and then now we're gonna get on to the episode So today we're doing like when you're stuck in negative thought Loops okay and I figured you guys would all this I hope that it's very useful for a lot of you out there okay so enjoy I'm sure you

guys all know what a thought is but um I'm gonna give you my quick definition just to provide some clarity so we're on the same page a thought loose more specifically a negative thought Loop is a series of sentences that you're repeating in your head that feel very necessary they feel like urgent and oftentimes feel like you're taking precautions and they feel like like almost dutiful and that you need to to complete these Loops in order to protect yourself or order to get whatever done there's a few different types of thought Loops different ways they show up initially I was going to just do thoughts pertaining to your situation of alienation but I think it

affects so much more like alienation itself affects all of the areas in our lives for a lot of us anyway I think most of us don't have the ability to compartmentalize and only have it affect one or two areas of our life you know and also because our behaviors the behaviors attach to these thought Loops can affect our alienation situation so much I feel strongly about wanting to visit a few different examples anyway because I think it could be helpful for you guys okay one of the first kinds of thought Loops that I'll bring up briefly is the urge to consume something so whether that is to compulsively shock have you ever like I used to work retail when I was my first very young adult

jobs were in retail and I would go into the store for work for the day I worked at a bunch of different at the same time over like the Gap and were limited and all that stuff and I remember I would go into work in the beginning of the day I would see like the new stock that would come in and I wanted that thing whatever that new thing was right and by the end of my shift I had 20 reasons why I needed that thing and I then I would end up spending all of my paycheck everything I mean at that age it didn't matter right but I would spend all of my paycheck on all the things that I have already convinced myself that I needed also this happens with you guys have

heard me talk about this when you are actively like feeding an addictive behavior so whether that's overeating over drinking not eating also is a compulsion and it begins with a thought list so those are like the consumption times you might do it also I kind of relate these when you're in the middle of a breakup with somebody and you have the urge you have to text you have to say the last thing you have to engage in another conversation with them you know what I'm talking about right all of us have been there where you just feel like you just have to say one more thing and or you have to drive by their house and drop stuff off and make a point but that is like we'll get in that obsessive it's

so compelling your reasoning for going and doing the things just so compelling that it's so difficult to resist until you go do the thing or you think it needs to continue anyway right because that's the thing about these when you're in a thought Loop your brain makes it seem like it's so so dire it's so necessary that if you don't do it then what you never really answer that but it's like this dun dun dun like you have to do it and sometimes to the point where you ever been in the argument and you see yourself going down like you're like all the this isn't going to be good but you keep going to like your own detriment right you ever done that with like maybe a boss who is now a former boss

yeah so I think we've all done that or a teacher or somebody that is a position of authority I've done that one many times too so there's that kind of thought there's the kind when we're concerned about somebody else's motives for instance the aerator so when we feel like we're vulnerable or don't have the control that we are used to or desire or think that we are entitled to this is often a quote unquote trigger for this to happen I have many many stories as I'm sure you do too of this happening especially when I was still actively sharing physical custody you know of my daughter with her father and stepmother my kiddo one time she came home when she was four years

old and almost five I guess and she had once had long hair and it was cut into a bob with bangs short short bangs y'all I about lost my goddamn mind oh I couldn't believe the not just the nerve like How could somebody who does this I was enraged also a bit scared because of like intimidated because I was like something's not right with this person like I was shuddering and so of course many many thought Loops were spurred from that one experience yeah I don't know if I'll ever forget that but when I was living in that I can't believe her what is she trying to do she is using my daughter as her little cutie doll like what is going all of the things when I did that I was handing my wrists over

here handcuff me to the Stepmom she had come and entered into my brain and had control over I mean I was obsessed with her Obsession do you know what I'm saying I was living and breathing seething anger how could she those Loops went on person pens dates or she would in first grade most teachers just where they send home like a calendar each day with their homework and whatever and so I would always draw I'm an artist and so I would draw and color in like oil crayons the seasons like for whatever month it was I did a theme for that month and did it all on her calendar so it was super cute and pretty for her every time she went in she had a I drew on her sandwich buttons with sharpies

and they were always these elaborate designs that ended up getting tough later but she loves that and so and all of her classmates love them so we go into lunch a couple days a week and all of our classmates are always like what did you go today right they loved it but there were times when my daughter would come home you know after being at her dad's for a couple days and my drawing my artwork would be torn off of her calendar sometimes tearing even into the days and I know it wasn't my daughter doing it I knew that it was her stepmom also the school buses the day she was coming home with me but the teacher wanted to know and then when she was going back over to her dad's house

also so that my daughter would either get on the bus or know that I was coming to pick her up the Stepmom would write on the calendar in big bold letters like to their last names house and then when it was for me to pick up bio mom is what she would write or she would write my first name Shelby in big letters and I it was so um abrupt isn't the right word but it was just so in your face and so bold I'm a bold person but not with um aggressive this is what it was that she was so aggressive with it and it always took me back like it made me feel unsafe and I didn't know how to act so instead I froze I was in that part of lymphoma response where I just froze I

didn't know what the [ __ ] was going on I didn't know what to do next except for of course up in my brain I would ruminate about it and I would get on these thought Loops about how crazy she was and she must be dangerous and this is really [ __ ] up and this is my poor sweet daughter and I thought by drawing these cute things Katy Perry and Willie Nelson and I would do cute like little uh you know like the elf on the shelf and whatever that was just my thing it was always like an art thing for her especially for kindergarten in first grade so I thought I was just being a fun mom for her but I think that on the other side now of course I look back on that clearly she took that my artwork as

a like a direct hit so in response she basically I think she was trying to pee on her property what she thought was her property just my daughter so I would really stress out and stay in these Loops it felt very uncontrollable for me it felt like my brain couldn't stop doing it but I I this is why I think so many of us as alienated parents feel like we are in our own personal health because we can't get out from under constantly looping in our head what their motives might be how evil and terrible and ugly and dangerous they are this is a very unhealthy unhelpful habit that if you do this your brain and I know because I mean it caused me a lot of suffering but the thing is the

function is very helpful when it's applied properly to the right circumstances the part of your brain that is doing this it's trying to search for danger so that you can avoid it but many times we're looking at things we can't control what's outside of us so if we're trying to focus on what their motives are although for very short periods of time and for restricted applications right when you're going to court then this can be helpful but otherwise when we are in that obsessive cycle of supposing what their motives are and what they're doing and how evil they are it's not helpful at all okay and so we need to learn how to interrupt or disengage from that part of the brain

that wants to do that that part of your brain also doesn't understand that what you're looping about isn't currently happening so if you'll notice this like when we're talking about situations that do seem to get you more emotional your brain truly thinks that's still happening right this is a perfect segue actually for going into the other kind of the last kind of loop I think it's the last thing also one that you guys will very likely relate to is the afterthought like the I should have known if I only would have done blank blank blank this is the one that always first comes to mind when I think about thought Loops I only in the last couple years really finally let go of this and

I noticed it the other day when I was cleaning my ears foreign sorry TMI when my daughter wears an itty bitty she had ear infections a lot I had ear infections as a baby it's just you know kids do right and so she at she was maybe 20 months old somewhere before she was two she I got two in her ears that solved all of the ear problems she was good to go and one day I remember I used to clean her ears with the big round Q-tips they look like a fan and so they're bigger and it's a kid's ear and so I would just sew in and swap because she always had stuff anyway one day she moved and I pulled back which to this day I don't know if she just got frightened or like startled by

the fact that I yelped when she moved and so then she cried or if I when she moved didn't move fast enough and it went into one of her shoes long story short is that was the two that I found out later on had it fallen out also that that eardrum was partially ruptured you guys I I was beside myself I was like did I cause this I told her oh it's okay honey I may have like I kind of feel like I don't know I don't really remember the incident that well that like when it happened I just remember pulling back and like oh and she then got startled herself and started to cry and I just remember going oh honey it's fine it just we just got startled you're fine did I ignore her pain did I cause you

know was this my fault and so I punished myself over and over especially after she left now mind you this was when she was like four okay four years old she was with me until literally like her ninth birthday she was fine healthy we had a very loving cuddly loving great relationship amazing relationship and so she was fine she was healthy but from the time that she moved into her dad's until a couple years ago anytime I saw a Q-tip really my stomach would just go into I would go into a trauma response thinking back about that and oh my gosh the pain I must have caused my daughter the pain I must have caused I can't believe I didn't maybe I should have you know all of the things it was a very

emotional experience for me and so I realized that I had been doing this I remember where I was in Texas and I was like gosh this is really it's not helpful I'd just become a Coachman just started really digging into the work myself and I started putting into action a protocol my goal was to eventually be able to look at a Q-tip and not go into this spiral I wanted to just allow it and not punish myself not speak poorly to myself and so that was the the initial goal and now I applied that same process to pretty much any thought loop it's helpful to label what exactly it is that you're doing oh this is a thought loot this is a helpful series of thoughts that I continue to think because I'm

trying to solve for what happened in the past when we're replaying certain actions that we took or didn't take from sitting here where the vantage point is is that we have all the information but back then when we made the decision to do or not do whatever thing that we think caused the string of problems you know what I'm saying I'm being very general right now but when we're trying to When We're looping on the thing that we did or didn't do back then or that we should have known better about again very useful mechanism it's trying to keep you alert and aware so that we don't repeat that same mistake now going forward the thing is is that when we're living back

there trying to solve for this thing over and over your your brain is like just it's almost like like how a computer tries different processes until it finds one that works it's like okay let's try this scenario in that scenario and change just a little bit here and change a little bit there that's what your brain is trying to do for something that's happened in the past and it's impossible obvious we all know this with our higher thinking that we can't go back and change the thing but the thought Loop seems absolutely 100 necessary and that's because you need to learn how to use your higher thinking to interrupt that unhelpful Loop I asked the private Facebook group I

posted yesterday about this I posted what one of my thought Loops were then I inquired about the members what their got Loops were and somebody immediately wrote back one of the other parents she was talking about how she wished she would have done something differently pulled her kid out in school the day that the other parent came and got him the sun is now over at Dad's house this was I guess a couple years ago that this happened and her brain this mom's brain is still looping about I wish I would have just kept him out of school that day he said he was sick why didn't I listen I'm supposing now of the things that she'd be saying but I we have all done this right why didn't I just know

why didn't I see the signs and so you're just going over and over and over and this kind of question why didn't I see maybe if you ask it once to yourself but when you're continuing on why didn't I low up you're always going to come up with answers that are unsatisfactory and it causes so much extra suffering for ourselves clearly this mom that answered this couldn't possibly know that the decisions she made to let her son go to school that day could it possibly have known that this was going to happen in her mind she thought she was being responsible and protecting her child by Sunday honey to school because she didn't have all the information at the time but now having

all the information of course that's what a negative thought Loop is it wants to shame you into believing somehow that okay so I did the wrong why didn't I just but then once you accept that shame then there's no solution anyway so it's just it's a fruitless Endeavor it's never helpful it's rarely helpful I should say there are times where you know like when you're doing the researching and you're trying to figure out like all the you know what they're really up to and the dangers of the narcissists and the dangers of the borderline personality and the person that alien needs your kid it can be helpful in the beginning to learn about what you're dealing with but it's very

limited and for the amount of time and the suffering you cause yourself wasting all of this time and energy and possibly causing yourself to be physically ill like in the long term it never matches the payoff the benefits never outweigh the drawbacks to it you know what I'm saying so and that's why to me too this is now I'm getting a little bit off veering a little bit off track here but I am pretty opposed to seeing the posts and this is probably why my follower count is so low I don't believe in engaging with posts or making the posts like social media posts that are the dangers of a narcissist or bad talking down talking The Narcissist or the distorted personality the alienating

parent right it sells but I don't believe in engaging in that kind of negativity for this reason for this very reason that it's triggering it's not healthy for our bodies to be processing and entertaining these kind of thoughts this kind of mindset really it sucks you in it feels good I can say like I'm using air quotes here because it kind of feels satisfying in a way to indulge in these the danger thought loot sort of thing it does feel in a way your brain is telling you you're educating yourself and you're being cautious you need to know that it doesn't happen again very necessary but you already know you're not going to do it again you'll instead can direct your attention to learning

from yourself how you feel how you want to show up what do I really want and this actually brings me to what you do about it all right so the first thing that you want to do when you realize that you are going through a thought Loop sure I've talked about this before about being like The Watcher of your own thoughts and your own experience really to be able to have this mental Out of Body Experience watching you as you experience your own thoughts and your own emotions it helps you to gain perspective and also because when you step out of living in the story of your thoughts you immediately gain some relief from the actual thought Loop itself and series of thoughts itself

because then you are now in an active role of watching mentally it's an active mental role of watching yourself and so you immediately start to feel a little small amount of relief there from that it seals more manageable because a thought Lube when you're in it it feels like your mind has taken over your body and you have no control over it but you do it's just what your mind wants you to believe at the time so you want to become the Watcher notice the fact that you're having a thought Loop acknowledge that like profess to yourself oh this is the thought Loop I'm going through a negative series of thoughts of ideas and I do this when I think that something has gone wrong so the next thing

naturally is to ask yourself what has gone wrong here what do you want or need to happen in this situation now oftentimes like if you're in that place where you're trying to solve for something that happened before I shouldn't have sent my kid to school I should have paid more attention been more on the ball in that situation you're going to want to say that you need to go back in time and change the way that you behave and so you'll know then that your PFC your prefrontal cortex is not involved in that response the reason I say that is because your P of C is fully aware this is something that we can't do this is the rational part of your brain there's like we

obviously cannot go back in time so you'll know that if you have an answer like that that this is your emotional rain or your primitive part of your brain doing the problem solving so then you need to ask again okay say that we could go back in time what would that provide me and you might even say then well then I would still have my kid this is how the brain that's resistance and stuff like this so then you would say and if I still had my kid what would that cause me to feel and you could say at peace you could say loved you could say valued responsible loving protective all of those things right those are the emotions that you really we're really all looking for especially when we're

talking about parenting once you have those answers this only takes a few minutes to do I'm just making it longer because I'm describing it Opera what am I really after what do I really want I want to feel at peace I want to know that they're okay I want to know I can be okay no matter what I want to feel valued okay and then you want to ask yourself how you can provide that emotion for yourself today how can I cause myself to steal at peace how can I cause myself to feel valued how can I value myself today if I was wanting to feel loved how can I love myself today how can I make myself feel important today because always no matter what everything that we do in life we are

doing because we in the end think it's going to make us feel a specific way no matter what it is we just want to feel at peace we just want to feel love we want to feel understood heard you know all of those things we want to feel motivated invigorate it it all boils down to what we want to feel in the ants the emotion that we're trying to illicit so when you can find out and what it is that your emotional brain is actually wanting from that from going back and solving that and then providing that for yourself you're always in the winning place because when we look to other people you hear me say this all the time when you there's a hair that's like in my face

you guys these things oh there it is because when we look to other people to cause us to feel all the emotions that we want to feel you've heard me say this before is that we end up either one being disappointed because we have expectations on other people or two we're constantly like waiting around and feeling needy and feeling dipped so instead let's learn to cause those emotions for our own selves like Supply whatever we need for ourselves and then when somebody else does do something and we feel whatever the emotion is that we wanted to feel then it's a bonus right but we can always cause ourselves to feel whatever emotion we want to feel find the ways that you could cause it

for yourself okay now if we're talking about an action right like an obsessive like checking on Facebook maybe drinking after a hard day and you've been like thinking about all it care all I want to do is have all I want to do is have a cigarette all I want to do is go smoke a joint whatever it is go through this process of what is has gone wrong here what do I think is wrong with this picture what do I really truly want here what do I think that the drink or the joint or the Facebook blah blah blah what is it going to provide me what's the emotion that I'm looking for there then it's how can you cause yourself to feel that without doing whatever action obsessive action compulsive action and

then the last question the one that you would add on to it is how am I justifying my behavior to myself and to others because usually when we do the action we're telling ourselves that we need it because yada yada or we lie it's usually like this this pointless not needed lie that we tell ourselves and maybe tell others some people ask you like why do you keep getting on your phone we're trying to have a conversation here oh because I have an important job thing coming in you lie about it you say something completely different than what you're actually doing so that you stay safe you keep that Obsession the action the compulsion hidden from others and maybe

even yourself and so what are you doing to cover it up okay and so when you come up with what you're doing and spell that out to yourself not to cause yourself shame okay let me be very clear about that this is not to cause you shame or to to to down yourself or to use on yourself as like some way to judge yourself no this is to gain knowledge about you and the thought Loop habit that you currently have that currently turns into an action that you've already decided before this that occurred that you weren't going to do the action okay so you're gaining knowledge about you and about the way that your body your thought loops and how it works for you when we're on thought Loops about like

let's say about the intentions or the motivations the motives of others namely the alienator in your child's life I think also it is very helpful to become aware of when is this triggered and you in the case where you're like looking at somebody else's Behavior your step parent the alien or whatever and you're like they're acting yada yada and it's crazy and I am just trying to protect myself and protect my child so I need to learn everything there is to learn about what they might do next you know what I'm talking about when you ask yourself what do you really want you may say I just want them to stop doing what they're doing they need to act like a normal person well you know also true

that we have no control over how they act we have zero control over that so what emotion if they were to respond or not respond right to just acts quote unquote normal like how you'd have them act what emotion would that cause you to feel and how can you supply that for yourself today now when I say that just know too that I don't intend for you to ignore the fact that they're acting the way that they're acting if you believe that it is to the detriment of your child's health welfare I am suggesting that you acknowledge the behavior that they're having knowing that you can't change it staying aware and alert without allowing it to hijack your mind and negatively affect your immediate

life affect your surroundings you can choose on purpose to be like I absolutely do not agree with the way that they're acting I am not comfortable with it and I don't want to be comfortable with it I'm not going to be comfortable with it but I also not comfortable with allowing my supposing and entertaining the stories that my mind goes to because of them you know what I'm saying so like you want to be able to make that separation there what they do I'm not pleased with it and I never will be I don't want to feel comfortable with it but I'm also not comfortable with allowing and supposing what they might do to interfere with the quality of my life today keep that

separate that is them this is me so I'm not comfortable with allowing them to affect the quality of my everyday living I will continue to stay aware and alert and at the same time I do not need it is not helpful for me to obsess and Google search and do all of this stuff in fact if anything that's Google searching and obsessing will take you off your game because then you are distracted with the circus of what's going on what could happen in your mind and all of this that you're not able to show up for your daily life and be alert for what is actually happening so it rarely Works to your benefit but I think with a place of compassion survey I'm looking like what

are the drawbacks to allowing this thought Loop to continue do I like the outcome here do I like this experience or do I not of course the answer if we're talking about negative thoughts the answers most likely going to be no in the end so yeah become the Watcher of your own thinking and allow the loop to be there without feeling like you need to down yourself as a result but just poke some holes in what your primitive brain is telling you are the benefits to doing this solid oftentimes it doesn't really have solid answers for you it's just doing it because it thinks it needs to and so if you just start asking what am I looking for here oh I just I really truly want to feel at peace I want to

feel like I am a good parent I am a protective parent I am someone who watches out and is responsible and so then you through to your brain how going back there and doing that is not going to cause you to feel those feelings what's going to cause you to feel those feelings is showing up that way today so I hope that helps somebody out there you guys have a lovely the rest of your week thanks so much for listening today guys I'm honored that you chose to share your time with me if you like what you've been hearing and you want more come join me in the new monthly membership where we take the concepts that you hear about here and using a logical framework you learn to

apply them to your specific situations upgrading your thoughts and your life even while experiencing the grief of alienation for more information go to beyondthehighroad.com see you soon foreign