Time Your Truth: When & How to Tell Your Kids For Alienated Parents

you are listening to the Beyond The High Road podcast with Shelby Milford episode number 123 stay tuned welcome to be on the high road a podcast dedicated to Healing your heart and life following the grief of alienation I'm your host Shelby mford a twice certified life coach specializing in post-traumatic growth if you're experiencing the effects of alienation and you're ready to heal then this show is my love letter to you stay tuned hello you guys today I'm going to be talking about a much awaited topic which is do I tell my kids when do I tell my kids is it appropriate to tell my kids the reason that I haven't really roached this topic is because you probably know already is

that I focus on your healing and the reason I focus on that is for the end game and this really is the end game in my mind and by endgame maybe that's not the best term for it you know what I'm saying though is that there's a lot of preparation involved with getting to this point where you go talk to them about PA I will tell you that I have not yet done this with my kiddo so I want you to know that like right off the bat I don't know by personal experience I do know human behavior and I also know cult-like behavior and what happens in the child's mind when they're going through something like PA when they're being coerced and I also have you know done so much research on this so there's that

but I do wanted to say that every kid is so much different it really just depends on the intricate dynamics of your particular situation of alienation and also if you have multiple kids their roles the roles that they play with the alienating parent and with you right everybody's got a different job if you will in the family that they're used to perform my job is to help you the alienated parent to get the best results you can feel the best while you're creating those results right so here it goes there are two instances where telling your kids outright telling your kids about the alienation are appropriate in my mind again my opinion and the first instance is when they come to you when

they Point Blank come and ask you usually it will be in adulthood they are now open to the idea of what's going on they're questioning it for themselves this is kind of an obvious answer here right they're questioning it for themselves and they have questions for you maybe they've just recently reached out to you or um just sort of May you've been flirting with the idea of going to lunch with you or what have you maybe it's just touch and go contact right now but you're starting to feel a little bit more comfortable and they starting to feel a little bit more comfortable and you're wondering whether it's time to say something I do believe I have a lot of caveats to this just know that and we

we're going to go into them in a minute if they are open to it if these are young adults adults then I do think it might be appropriate there again every instance is going to be different every kid's going to be different every Dynamic right but generally I would say once they're open to it and come to you I have a she's a fellow alen parent mom she was near a mom who's also in the private Facebook group her daughter joined the Facebook group not through her mom's telling her about the Facebook group her daughter just joined I forget now she even might have mentioned it just recently how that all happened she's been very quiet in the group I don't know if she's active if she's come

and listen to any of the live events that we do or not I have no idea I do know though that clearly this daughter who is I she's in her early 20s I think um is not resistant to the idea of alienation having taken place in her childhood and still with her little brother half brother so there's that like there are pretty cut and dry instances where the kids are interested in knowing more um the other time that I think it's might be appropriate for you is when you have no more to give um I don't love that term or the idea because really that kind of suggests a lacad isical whatever sort of attitude and that's when you're just going to go and burn down the building right and I

don't think that that's a great idea unless your desired result is Revenge which never really gives you the satisfaction that you truly desire anyway so but what I mean to say is more like knowing when you have nothing left to lose meaning you don't have contact anyway and so that's not like if you said something that visits would stop or maybe you're already blocked as it is so it's not like you're losing anything more and I am going to go into all the don'ts in a little bit but I think it's important to just say it here now too you're just going to throw it out there and see if something sticks you may not have something left to lose but make sure by doing that throwing it all out there

that you're not harming them you know that you're not harming even the alienating parent so knowing that you have nothing left to lose right and you and you want to just go throw it out there or maybe it is that they've sort of come to you have been flirting around with the idea that they know has gone down before and they're ready to come to terms with it maybe they're asking you some questions like here and there and just haven't jumped in you know both feet sort of thing then you want to ask yourself just a few questions around your motive so the first question is what do you want to accomplish or better asked even is like what is your end goal here what is it

that you want to happen as a result of letting them know what happened and then after you respond to that get like come up with your answer for that you want to ask yourself why why is that your goal what do you believe it will provide for you and what do you believe it will provide for your kiddo okay and maybe it's even could be appropriate that you even say well do you think it'll provide for the alienating parent okay those three questions are unskippable those will help you one to stay on task during the conversation I mean I know that you know this a basic conversational skills with other people what when it comes to our kids and something as emotionally

activating as alienation and what we've gone through if you haven't yet processed through and guaranteed I don't know anybody that really truly has processed through everything every path situation so that when they come to this new situation of approaching this very sensitive topic with their kid that other trauma doesn't come up I mean it's almost inevitable right so when you do come to that point and you maybe possibly enter into the beginnings of stress response right you feel like that fight or flight coming up you've already written down all right what is it that I want to accomplish here because then when you get all activated and nervous system is in a frenzy in Sag you can

redirect yourself back to your actual goal so that you don't get lost in the drama of it in your emotional grin and in your body look at your motive like that's why for the last what working on three years now every week basically is bringing you up to this really checking the way that you're thinking and the way that you're feeling about all the situations and making sure that you're acting on the behalf of both yourself and of course your kid if it's appropriate and whoever else you love and care for in your life over reacting right being so reactionary and sort of ping pong balling or pinballing around life so becoming pointed directed about why you're doing it what's your motive

and here's the thing is I'm going to get to it in adults too but if your motive is to make them understand you you're going to be in for a rocky rough ride and so I'm going to explain in a little bit why that matters so much and why each approach to this conversation having this conversation is so delicate and so important that you think it over like that you have a plan as opposed to just blowing up okay and I know that you know that but again with something as emotionally charged as this it's really important that you be strategic not because you're trying to manipulate or weasel but because you're being mindful about your approach to something as important to you as your

relationship with your child something as important to you as your child's mental health moving forward okay so your motive we went through those three questions next going into it it's really important that you come from a place of humility and all-encompassing love what I mean by all-encompassing love is is showing an understanding and compassion for the parent who alienates for your child who angers you actually you your child never angers you it's what your thoughts are about what they do that causes you anger but let's just leave it about right now so loving them for all that they are and even if you can get there forgiveness would be very very helpful before you go into that

conversation so I'm forgiveness towards the the offending parent or whoever is alienating your kids from you now listen I don't mean to ret traumatize by saying that you must forgive your abuser I'm not saying that at all if it's not good for you then don't do it but I will say that forgiveness is always going to work to your benefit when appropriate for you when you're ready okay it will help you to think more clearly and to love your own self more freely and then of course your children so um confusing love and humility when you're going to approach it feeling those feelings not just repeating stly to yourself I need humility and mcing love you know not that you want to come at this knowing

where you've been wrong in the past where you did love up or turn away back down out of shame or self-doubt you maybe stood by hoping that things would change you know many parents that's what happens at myself eluded where I was like if I make any waves now I feared the backlash that I will and she will suffer and so instead I would stay there and then make myself complicit in the abuse which at the time I did what I thought was best for the both of us right from myself and my daughter but looking back now I can see that there were areas where I definitely wasn't standing in my own power for the best interest of my child I didn't have those tools yet and that's okay not mad at

myself about that and I don't shame myself about it today I did for a long time right like how could you how did you not have the courage this is your own kid you should have stood up and it's you know it's everything course H that 2020 right so knowing where you played a role in the whole Fallout if you will alienation process is going to be really helpful for you whether or not you disclose that at the time that you do have this conversation whenever if ever you do that up to you and it all just really depends on the nature of your conversations right I say conversations and I kind of alluded to it just a little bit ago because I don't think that this is something that you

have in one sit down I think it's something that you approach slowly um I hate to use the word cautiously because I don't want to instill fear in you because I think that this should if you're living in all encompassing love and humility then fear like you have to pick one of those to be the primary emotion right and so I would have fear to a back seat focus on the thoughts that create love and a sense of humility for yourself so knowing where you have been wrong in your past and seeing it for what it is almost in a neutral way maybe there's some regret sadness but it's not coming from a place of badage owning it and being okay with that because people human beings make

mistakes especially coming from trauma okay not as an excuse for yourself but just knowing it truly deeply knowing them and the only way that you really get there is by doing that work for yourself that is why I do I right this is all getting you ready for that that's what I do with my coaching clients on me every day that whether that's for them to reunify with their kids which many of them have like while the custody order is still in place I me right or whether that's to to reconnect with them when you guys have this conversation it's so important that you do your work on you ahead of time even if and I know that you know this but even if your plan the ending for you is not to it's not all

about and that's really where I suggest that you come from is it's like don't do all of this work on yourself all in the name of Hope for y'all reuniting and that be your only reason the whole reason I think all of us as alienated parents are going through this whole circumstance of alienation is because every alienated parent that I've known only got to be alienated because they didn't put themselves first they were willing to self erased before the alienation even actually ensued right before the person who alienates your kids was able to get there right they sense that that was the dynic that y'all had together before maybe you even had kids your set of skills that you

developed as a kid worked for them right and so if you have had a habit of not putting yourself first and compromising your own values and beliefs for the hope of getting love from somebody else then we wouldn't be in the situation to begin with I think that's all of our challenges and I I hate to overgeneralize in that way maybe if it's different for you then I would love to hear from you you that I in the last person to tell you how you feel and what your experience is so just know that you life this knowing where you're at fault what of course like I said what you want to accomplish here and then also you want to possess like inhabit is that the right

word that I want to use like step into a space of curios iOS it and a desire to connect with them okay now maybe I want to as soon as I said that I want to argue with myself because if you're doing the second option which is like this is your last ditch effort to let them know that they're being abused if that's the story that you have right then maybe you're not actually trying to connect in that way but still you want to be open to understanding them approaching it in that way because this is really important you guys because well there's so many reasons why but if you are wanting to bark at them and never really wanting to do it but if you like in your mind you just need to make

them understand why can't they just see what you see like they're being abused and they're being taken advantage of and clearly they're seeing me as all bad and the other parent is all good why can't they just get it so I want to show them that way when you do that you end up actually taking on the same attitude and approach that the alienating parent is using on them and that is what I say goes do as I say because I said so just like kind of like a lot of our parents at least I know for me how my mom was was why do I have to bet because I said so right and there was no discussion about it I knew in my house that my opinion wasn't needed nor wasn't wanted

you know children should be seen and not heard um and maybe that's not the case for your kids I don't know maybe it is uh but generally speaking that when we're talking about coercive control that parent is telling them showing them suggesting to them without encouraging them to question why they're adopting their beliefs they're just supposed to adopt they're just supposed to get on their team it's like their way of the highway and so now if you come at them by saying this is how it is how come you just can't see why can't you see this why can't you see that and you're just trying to shove information in their faces you're teaching them the same thing as the only new parent is doing

therefore just reinforcing what they already believe not only what they already believe about you because of the influence but now what they already believe about how they receive and take in information this is how we all got here to alienation to begin with is that our kids are believing something un through things or fabricated or um embellished truths because somebody told them that because they were impressionable because they were kids they didn't know to ask questions but now if you're at the point where you're actually having a conversation with them because you want to explain it to them I'm assuming that your kid is not five right funny not funny um and that

they're able to use their critical thinking but maybe because I mean all the I remember reading at one time I remember was actually driving in my car when I was reading it which is terrible but it is the truth I just remember where I was in Austin when I was reading about how you know with coers of control and with alienated kids at the age that the abuse starts or that the psychological um the coercion begins is the age of course when their critical thinking becomes stunted and so if they're even in their 30s 40s many areas of their critical thinking their executive functions may not be working the way that uh a normal prefrontal cortex functions for person

of their age right so instead of wanting to bark at them or just make them see you want to bring your truth I guess I think of it maybe like as if you have a platter and on the platter are all the things right all the different pretty uh orders and you're bringing your truth and you're sprinkling it on the platter and you're in it up that sounds manipulative when I say it I don't mean it like that I just mean that you're making your truth here palatable and easy to access without shoving it down the throats you know what I'm saying so it's more of a give and take with that with those conversations the series of conversations right um okay so there is a number three there is a third instance

when I think it's okay to approach this topic but I really wouldn't consider it to be telling them about the PA that happened more it's intervening in a loving way because in this instance they would be younger kiddos or you know under 18 and they're still under your roof part time and you still have a connection and a exchange going on with the kids right like they're still going back and forth between the houses and they're still kind of open and conversational with you and if not fully conversational there still are exchanges energy exchanges if you will right like there's you make them dinner and they even if they go taken up to the room there are ex energy exchanges do you

know what I'm saying but like I said it's not in the same way I wouldn't even consider it to be telling your kids about PA but rather lovingly intervening for the best of their emotional and mental development and that would look like handson teaching them how use their critical thinking this is what I help a lot of parents with doing in a very conversational way so that they are not looking like they're trying to make the other parent out to be the bad guy this is never really about that like I there's a lot of people out there like PA professionals that are out there coaches that want for you to combat alienation by strategizing and trying to get the kid to see it this way and come

around from the backside and we go up through the window and around the corner and I I don't agree with that I mean I think that that some of the ideas are good but the reason why I don't agree with it is because the mindset that that puts you into is a mindset of manipulation and of doing basically what the what the ill needing parent is doing to them right in just a different way it she sounds at the same point it's deceitful if you ask me and so it's not my I'm not in it I just for me I don't think it puts us into the right mindset to be able to carry it out and not like fall down a a f SL you know of wanting to then combat the alienating parent and when you get into that mindset now

you've changed your whole mission which is what I spoke about in the beginning right what's your motive what do you want to accomplish why is that your goal and what do you believe it'll provide always come back to those three questions because if you are wanting to outsmart the alienating parent and show them in a different way and do this and do that your goal is always outside of you and you will tire out like if you've been listening to any of the episodes I talk about this so much that is why people feel exasperated and like I just can't do this for another a second and this is so much of course it is because you're trying to change and control somebody outside of you to react in a

way that is favorable it's never going to work even if the the your intention is good you know this is for the best of them I get it I get it but I tell you it's a miserable existence so teach them critical thinking skills in conversation without sending them the message that you are trying to get them over to your side because that's what I tell you that's one thing that they're already so sensitive to if you've ever been to reunification therapy which by the way I really wish I would love to do that episode over the reunification scam episode because I have stronger feelings than what I actually shared in that episode The de aside to point for now if you've ever been reunification therapy

you know if it ended in which I 90% of the families that have entered into just straight up reification therapy always end up at a dead end because the alienating parent ends up putting the kabash on the whole process by either not showing up having this in conflicts or the kid doesn't come anymore because they say that the therapist is on the your side right oh you guys are Shing up against me they blame the therapists for going to the enemy's team they are very Adept and very sensitive to anybody trying to make them see anything different than what they already believe and this gu gos for the adults who are still in the Cults hopefully that's not offensive to anybody but it is what it

is still under under the indoctrination and but also goes to the little ones okay is that and of course you can judge where your kid is in that whole indoctrination process you know your child best you know yourself best and where you can see those little Windows of opportunity to intervene so use your best judgment Above All Else Above All Else use your own internal compass with that there's conversational ways to teach them about critical thinking it really just depends how old they are but I used to for example with my daughter I would ask her a lot if we went and saw a movie even before she left and I was doing a supervised visitation I mean there was years before that that

alienation was already the tactics were going strong right she and I would sit and watch movies and I would always ask her at any opportunity I could where something was presented in the movie where a kid was being coerced by a friend maybe there was some bullying or judging or something going on in the TV sometimes it just had to do with social situations where there were two sides or three sides to a story I would ask her her opinion about it this does two things it teaches her number one that I care about what she thinks and about her inner going on it provides opportunity for connection for the two of us and for some vulnerability some intimacy between

us and possibly the opportunity for some laughter and some you know learning moments for both of you right so it's amazing for that but also it's teaching her to use her critical thinking about things further away from her than the things that she like back when my daughter and I were having these conversations she didn't have words for the Ali Nation she just accepted that all as truths and everything was sort of like in these little boxes right messy little boxes of rules that she had to live by so teaching her to use her critical thinking on something's not so threatening as a social situation on the karate kid or something it was much easier for her to more digestible right

oh my necklace just B off um more digestible easier for her to open up about that sort of stuff and not as activating for her that's one way is to ask your kiddos about regular everyday situations this also you can do this and I use this example a lot but like if your kid comes home you're still in communication with them and they're under your roof hard time or whatever it is and they're talking about a situation that happened at school some social situation comes up where morals or values are in question ask them what do you think and then let's say they say I think so and so is being me it sounds like you feel a little bit hurt by that what specifically hurt you about what

suie did what's the thought that made you get the funny feeling in your belly how did you feel on the inside of course depending on how old they are but really it's so important if your kids are young like Childer age and above start teaching them now I mean this like I feel so passionate about this start teaching them now about the feelings that they have in their belly like the physical Sensations vibrations that are going on inside of them helping them to describe them in detail now like how does it feel in your belly is it swirling is it hot is it cold what does it feel like in your chest is somebody standing I mean don't do it as fast as I'm doing you but give them words for

what's going on with them so they understand that one that they're not alone two that there's nothing wrong with them by having these interior going on right the vibrations that they're feeling everybody else has these things to you so they feel not alone so that they know that you understand and that these things are wellcome to be talked about in your home or in your presence okay this is so important and I'm telling you guys I mean this like you can dress this up or Advance this to even use this kind of conversation with high school and college and above age kids adults asking them how does that make you feel inside what I would say is I know for me when I get angry I feel like

this tightness in my chest and sometimes you know just not that you're prodding to know but this is how I feel or this is how I know my friend feels when she feels this like does that sound legit to you does that sound like how you feel and I know she deals with that because sometimes if you kids don't want to take our Our advice but they if you say that you read it somewhere or that a friend or whatever person told it to you then they're more likely to hear that you know what I'm saying they value the opinion not just because valin Nation but depending on their age but because parents aren't cool ever right so just offering them information in a very non

cushy way convers ational way will help so much even if they don't respond to you in the way that you hoped they would just know that every exchange that you have with them is a seed planted that is all I suggest that you should ever aim for I'm just sewing a seed I'm just sewing a seed keep it always focused on your performance or your behavior in the moment not based on how they react or respond to you okay and I know that you he that from other stuff no matter what conversation we're having base it on how you not not just how you do so many parents like you and I I talk like on a daily basis will think that it's really about like they can have and feel any

way they want so long as they show the good face outward this is an Antiquated way of thinking you guys because no matter what I don't care who you are how gift you are as a parent as a person whatever it is that you're doing if you're feeling one way on the inside primarily feeling one way to be the other way on the outside is always going to come off weird and sometimes even creepy or like like awkward right so you can say all day till the gas can home it you did and behaved and said all the right things to a person but if you're not feeling it on the inside then number one you're being this in genuine but most important what I care about the most for you is your experience of the

whole experience right how you feel during it this is going to give you the the best possible outcomes for yourself if you're focused on you and not trying to anticipate what they're thinking feeling or going to do okay and that is the the rule that I would take all the way through this any conversation that you have with them base it always upon how you are thinking and feeling because of who you want to the parent that you want to show up as every single time like how do I want to feel do I want to know that I am a capable and loving mom and not show up in shame what does that entail for me what thoughts would I need to be thinking in order to feel like a

capable and loving mom and let's start thinking those thoughts now ahead of time right let's practice those thoughts on the daily basis as opposed to practicing the thoughts that cause shame or cause uncertainty certain certainty by the way is something that you must go into each and every conversation certainty on your goal your mission right not a mowing over certainty but a certainty in who you already are as their parent as their father or mother right that that is forever nobody can take that away from you you are certain of that no matter what no matter how they think or feel you know that and we also are certain of Your Love you're all encompassing love for them and for

everybody involved in the whole situation and for yourself okay and certainty that you are worthy those are all very important okay so I can I like I said I could make this so long I want to um all right so teaching them the critical thinking skills in the most loving way possible in that is showing them that you care and want to engage them in conversation each time that they um provide an answer even if it's snarky or shitty mirror that mirroring is basically just uh repeating to them the standout subject part of the sentence that seems to be the issue or the the focus what you want to continue to do is to keep engaging them and asking them to draw out more

telling them that you want to hear more and the way that you can do that is by showing interest also what you can do with was um because kids especially when they're worked up whether they're angry or just really you know physically upset it really helps if you at that point cly are able to name it for them right not trying to tell them how they feel but the story I'm telling myself looks to me is that you're really upset right now can you tell me why can you tell me how I can support you what can I do next and they're like yelling and screaming and bleding and you could say gosh I love you so much and I really want to be supportive here it sounds like you're

mad can you tell me about that and if they say whatever they' saved you that could be yeah I am mad I'm mad because blah blah blah that's when you can say oh okay so I see your side of the story can you tell me more about that if I was in that position and I believe that somebody's doing that to me I'd be really upset too tell me more and then and then you can say listen I know this is how you see it I get it I I do get it and I think I also have a different way of seeing it are you open to hearing it are you open to to seeing But first you must you must must must validate their emotions that they're having currently and do not defend yourself okay so that's what I'm going to get into that

so another thing that you can do is with the critical thinking is you can talk with them about so you you've questioned using the questions about what would you do in that situation what do you think about Sally and Harry in that situation and why do you think that so and so is right or wrong or whatever and how would you feel in situation and all that sort of stuff really get them engaging in the conversation and if you make it fun so it's not such a serious conversation one appropriate obviously then you can likely get them to talk and talk and talk and talk with you you know so long as you're picking up on the cues ask them open-ended questions right not like

yes or no questions what would you do in the situation how do you think that they were if they say they were wrong tell me how you know okay so um how do you suppose she feels how do you per and if they don't know and say perhaps if I was in that situation I would feel neglected or angry elated or whatever you know what would really help too is if you got aay depending on doesn't really matter how old your kids are get a feelings list in fact I should put one on the website for everybody I have it somewhere but I need to get that the thing I'll put a a link to a feelings list for you guys to use with your kids this is also a great tool to use especially your kids are younger help

them to label their emotions give them words for what they don't have words for their experiences that otherwise sort of just get brushed off in the other house okay all right oh another way to do it is also too is how do you suppose that they feel and then do you ever feel that way have you ever felt you're watching a movie or whatever and the person feels reject it or cast off or whatever that's the message that it's sending to you how do you suppose she feels let them give you the emotion don't just say oh they seem rejected have you ever felt rejected let them give you the motion and be like oh I I felt like that have you ever felt like that you know okay

all right what's a great book you guys is and I haven't read it in years it's just coming to me now I know that um uh is it War Shack I think that did divorce poison in the back of that book the last couple chapters I remember listening to and reading that over and over back when I was in Texas and I was still seeing my daughter on a regular basis he gives you a lot of examples for how to use the critical thinking skills and games and like situations where you can apply it he gives you a lot of examples in that book so again it's been forever since I read it so just Pi up the grand Sal cuz I haven't like gone back and read at me in like more recent years but

anyway yeah try that all right so now don't we're going back to it's early on and we're talking about intervention and we're not talking about raising up that this is what's been going on you've been being alienated sort of thing it's early on don't do nothing so y'all out there that are listening and maybe alienation has just started and you are feeling like you don't know what to do and of course again just keep reminding yourself too you do internally when you're listening to it and you're not plowed with trauma response emotional brain thinking you do know what's best for both you and your child but I would say as a general statement don't do nothing don't stay silent and hope that

things are going to get better don't just bow down or back away because you're scared of the retaliation on the alienating parents side a couple weeks ago I was talking about don't hate the hater you know hate Injustice love Justice right what what I meant by that and I really wish I would have said that there I don't mean that you're supposed to be the one that's cracking the weip and putting down laying down the law and I don't mean that you also need to go tell your ear needed child about what they're doing so that you can get Justice let Justice Prevail by outing the alienating parent you do that and you're not going to have a favorable result but don't do nothing don't bow

out because you're having feelings of unworthiness please please please don't not do what you know to be right because you're fearing what they're going to do right feeling them outing you in some way this is my biggest biggest regret ever is letting my shame get the best of me and not following through in in presenting the pattern of behavior by the alienating parent parents talking about the Stepmom too I started away from presenting all that evidence in court because I feared their retaliation and how they were going to you know make me look bad in court don't and I've already been alluding to this the whole time don't go in trying to sing roll over and just wanting them to just see

if you could only just figure out the way to show them the everything then like the will come and they will have seen all of the air of the alienating parent and they'll see all the abuse and suffering that you've been going through and everything will be better and you guys will be holding hands into a sunset right don't do that because you will end up it'll backfire in its face not only that so your kids might actually then really use that to as information against you only to strengthen the AL parents claims about you depending on what they're claiming also too if you have if this is early on or even if it's not like other people not that we care about what other people are thinking but

when it comes you flying monkeys and custody evaluators and whoever you have in the mix right now if you're going there to try to bash the other parent and make your child see even if it's adult child see the the that's gone on under their nose and other people either witness or hear about it they are going to also think that something wrong with you you know because essentially what you're doing is doing the same thing that you're actually faulting them for now in this way you're not doing it in order to well you might be put doing it to put to put a Roi in between them the parent you know but I know it's not as it's the word pernicious right here it's not as Sinister seeming but it's

still doing the same thing don't go on a counter smear campaign on that bad idea bad idea my next point was don't be against the other parent instead show them how we are all on a spectrum don't defend yourself y'all I know that you know it but again when we're in trauma response and we're like you know like a low-grade trauma response and we're in that fight like fight for our kids they need to know and we start to feel that you know how that urgency feels inside your belly and you just need them to understand that it wasn't you it was them this whole thing was a whole fabrication of whatever whatever when you defend yourself you're basically telling the kid again even adult kid

that they are wrong and they need just accept what you've said just as they've already been dealing with for however long they've been going going through the alienation you need to include them in the conversation un understand and like attempt keep attempting to understand what their experience of this whole thing is how are they feeling understanding why they're feeling this way because what they're feeling whether no matter how angering their actions seem to be to you right how frustr you are their feelings are real and the story that they have is real so instead of doing all of this those Jes right you want to like I said you want to enter a conversation with them you want to ask

them how they think what they think then use what they say as a line of communication right to keep a line of communication of them like I was talking about before coming from a place of curiosity wonderment even and I know we're talking about abuse here but still like come at it from this like learning you want to learn about them in order to connect with them at their Pace you are the parent you give and give and give here's where I think the we go back to the motive thing y'all parents out there that feel like it's time they need to see my side now it's not time for you you know like if you feel finally it's enough now they need to just know I've had it sort of thing please please

please don't like if there's a sense of urgency around needing to tell them now that is when he must not tell them okay most of the time that sense of urgency is coming from a place of self-created drama and it's going to end up in suffering self created suffering okay what you can do instead of Defending yourself is you can discuss persuasive tactics by talking about politics and you know her politics is so evident that either side of left or right they're telling stories based on what they believe or what they what works for them that's what they're telling their people but they stand behind it because they believe it each side right each side really believes the stuff that they're

selling because they believe it's whether they whether they believe all of the stories they believe their purpose behind it that it's all for the good of the people right and it's the same thing with somebody that's alienating our kids from us right they believe what they're saying and also obviously nobody wants to talking about our kids now nobody wants to admit that they're wrong nobody I don't care if the kid is five or 35 right nobody wants to admit they're wrong because being right provides a sense of certainty for our own self and a sense of safety if what we've believed all along is right then we feel like we're on the right track but if we've been wrong all along then what

then our whole reality was false makes somebody feel very unstable to try to present the truth to somebody who's not ready to hear the truth and not ready to hear that their whole life has been based upon all of this fabrication is very very very unsettling and by the way the truth is not ever a thing there's not just one truth because no matter what we're talking about almost any any story that you have going on in your head is really subject to perspective that's why I always think it's a little bit crazy when people say oh I've been a living a lie this whole time no you weren't living a lie you weren't living a lie even if you were with somebody that had been lying to you the entire

time you were with them would said you know I had a few relationships like that you weren't living a lie I wasn't living a lie because I was living my Truth at that time of course again hindsight's 2020 we can see look back now and that that that truth isn't maybe today's truth but that was your truth then same with your kiddos okay have some compassion for the experience they've been through this is so long um okay so the way to find compassion this I wish that somehow I could like make this a public service announcement for everybody but the way to find compassion for even the evilest of people in your mind right is to recall times when you've done something similar to what

they've done and know that you want to immediately reject what I just said but just hang on for a tight second okay recall times in your past where you have been convinced that something was true like convinced that you had no material evidence to back it up I have a couple examples here so a client long time ago she was also alienated and it had been enough and enough and enough off and she tried all the ways and ended up moving to cross country to start a new life she got remarried married it had been I don't know 3 years let's just say and she got a new job she was living obviously in a whole new place with all new people and really like legit started

over she was convinced that her neighbor had gotten her fired from her job her neighbor had was actually in her mind responsible for the downfall of her there were all these negative events that were happening one by one in her mind in her life like um that so she got fired from her job she was convinced that the the neighbor had called up to her job and gotten her fired but also called several of the employees and told them rumors about her so that all the employees would shun her and hate her this is what the client was saying to me she was convinced that that this one neighbor was going around and infiltrating her lives it's easy for us to understand this right because we've

gone through most of us gone through something similar to this being alienated from our kids right this is exactly kind of what the alienator does they go and they get all their slim monies and they want to single you out get you on an night right so it's understandable that she's stealing this way so she was certain that nebble a sabotage in real life she not fired called the employees oh she was also certain that she got her the neighbor got her parents her own parents to shun her basically disown her right every bad thing that was happening to her she attributed to this neighbor who she used to be friendly with but then had some like my ner falling out with her like a

misunderstanding like in passing and so in her mind after that misunderstanding things started happening right afterwards so she was like it must be she was convinced that this neighbor was the one that was responsible for all of it but after I questioned just a few questions did you ask the neighbor about this did you confront her did you say hey did you know happen to blah blah blah blah blah blah call the other neighbors and tell them to stop inviting me on kast tonight or whatever it was I don't know um you know and did you call my work and whatever she' never she was like no I never even it didn't even occur to me to ask her about that and then I asked her a few more questions

and it turns out that the neighbor was in fact not responsible for any of this stuff it was all made up in her mind because of her past experience with alienation and with how she believed people worked when they got mad and so in her mind that's what anybody's going to do to her but and she believed it she full on believed that story I mean you got to have compassion for that because we can understand coming from Al Nation how she would see that but it was not rational thinking she actually made this innocent person who she had a running with like a simple little running with she made them out to be this evil person in her mind right me my own experience

you know my Nita my pig Nita died last no not last October the October before that I missed that pig to death but for a long time I had had similarly this weird little falling out with my neighbor next door now she is she has done some crazy ass shitty things right she's called HOA and complained about me and does everything sort of backhanded right she's nice to your face and then she's mean whatever but I was convinced that she poisoned my pig I'm was convinced of it that she must have poisoned in my pig but I had no like there was no evidence to back that up I was convinced of it you want to know why because it was easier for for me to believe that she did it because she's

evil and bad than it was for me to think that maybe it was something that maybe possibly I could be at fault for like maybe I neglected to see something that the answer that she did it provided me with a sense of like oh well now I know where I can direct my and so even though I hated the thought of somebody poisoning my P it's a terrible thought right but that thought to me at the time in my emotional grain sounded way better than me sitting with number one not knowing how she died like what the problem was for sure right or two that maybe somewhere I just should have seen it earlier than I did I should have picked up on some signs that I didn't that was uncomfortable for me I picked

the certainty over the the uncertainty the easy way out right of blaming somebody so that I could feel certain about it rather than uncertain so anyway um that I think if you can look in your own life on how you were convinced that something happens this is why I came to the coaching program I did like the where I went to school is because this is how they taught and it was really really helpful it resonated with me because I knew that my daughter was going through this course of control and things aren't always how they seem you know for all of us it's really just a matter of perception and so when I was able to like draw away from the story that I was so attached to in my mind

that I was holding on to right for security and feeling of protection and look at things more in a neutral way then I was able to also love myself more freely my daughter more freely without expectations and I was also able to forgive more easily the offender right the antagonizer right because I know and can understand that they're just not just this pure evil Straight From Hell like something to be scared of calculated evil evil person instead what they are is somebody that really just wants to believe their truth because of whatever is going on for them we don't need to get into all that today because it's a whole different bag of chips right but that helped me to neutralize who they

are oh yeah I've told myself lies too or I've told myself stories that were definitely untrue but I was convinced of them too I was convinced that that was the right story to believe so often the alienator believes and stuff that they say even if they were the ones that made it up they will like get on board with their own liines to the point where they forget that they need those lies up you know anyway um in negotiate perform am I trying to excuse what the alienating parent has done as you know that but I believe truly that when we can have some compassion and understanding maybe not we don't agree or would never condone what they do but to understand what's

going on up in the nogin will help you to approach your situation with your kiddo with a much more uh even healed mindset right and sealing inside knowing that there's not something to be like feared because your your kids are being uh demonized by the Ali parent okay again not me nothing but the much more approachable way to deal with it okay so to summarize that very very long episode is that coming if you're going to do it there are two possibly a third reason to do it and that is the first one is because they your kiddos have been willing and showing signs of curiosity and already come to you the second reason is because you're throwing that pale Mary which I don't I keep

saying that because that's what's already in my head but you feel like you have nothing to lose you're not releasing hope and expectations on what will happen when you do it but you just feel like you have nothing to lose and that they have nothing to lose by you throwing it out there okay and that they're mature enough already to receive this information you're not sending a letter to your 10-year-old right or even 16-year-old not parentifying them adul toying them don't put them in the same situation that you already fault the aliena parent for huge huge so always be mind ful of what it is that you don't like about what the ill anding parent is doing and make sure that you're not

doing that too and then just excusing it because You' got a better intention you know and that's why I don't always like the way that some other people experts coaches encourage parents to to approach this because it's just the same it's the same thing just dressed up better and I instead if you're coming at it from a place of I want to love and understand and connect and don't want to blame or convince my kid to hate the other like enlist them onto my team that's one thing that you just don't that approach is going to backfire and if it doesn't backfire i f it's going to backfire some way whether it's an internal backfire and then you're constantly feeling like

you need them to give you some sort of response and you're going it's going to feel listen it's a different episode but it's it's not going to feel good so you're not necessarily trying to enlist them to come to your side and let's now hate on the other parent right instead it's I love you and I know that you're ready for this information or I hope that when we come to this you will be ready for this information and let's share and I really want to know about you first how has your experience of this been what are you mad at what are you sad at how can I support you what can I do different that first not defending yourself not presenting your case to them but coming

to them wanting to connect so it's not like you know that you've been a meated your whole life and this is why I didn't show up and here's you don't like you're not trying to evoke a sense of pity from them onto you that's awful you don't you will never say this upfront but just look at your motives behind it right you want to make sure that what you're doing you're not doing it for for some sort of overwhelming compassion and deep sorrow for the experience that you had because you were so victimized because then in your mind in the emotional brain again you won't think it's in the Forefront but then they will at least understand why I did or didn't do these things that

I did back then that I feel so guilty of so basically what you'd be doing is relieving your own conscience at their expense which is not going to work out well for you the end you're not going to get the most desirable result right for you so hopefully that helps but um yeah that's what I have for you but I said this probably could have been three episodes a series but at least that's a start I might revisit this like in chunks with you sometimes to okay all right you guys I'm live in Facebook group on Fridays at 12:15 Eastern Standard Time I have a course out right now it's $59 and I'm actually finally redoing my the website it's been a hot mess and I realized I just wasn't even indexed like

your Google for the past two years like I was before with my old anyway it's a mess so I've been redoing it so it it it's going to everything's sturdy sturdy is the word of the year and that's what's that's what we're building we're building the the sturdy of in all the areas okay so I will see you next week thanks so much for listening today if you like what you're hearing and you'd like to hear more please make sure to click subscribe wherever you're listening or watching also for bite-sized clips and tips be sure to find me on Tik Tok or Instagram see you next week