**Introduction:**

Alienation can be an overwhelming experience, deeply affecting the hearts and minds of all involved. In episode 156 of "Beyond The High Road Podcast," host Shelby Milford delves into the complex dynamics of right versus wrong thinking, particularly for alienated parents. As someone who specializes in post-traumatic growth, Shelby offers compassionate insights into how these cognitive patterns can hinder healing and connection.

Understanding Right Versus Wrong Thinking

Shelby begins by acknowledging the common feeling of moral outrage experienced by alienated parents. This right versus wrong mindset can feel like a natural response to perceived injustices but often leads to greater isolation. Noteworthy quotes like, "This is just plain wrong," and "Someone needs to hold them accountable," highlight a recurring theme of seeking justice and clarity, which can inadvertently maintain a cycle of victimhood.

Role Types and Cognitive Biases:

Shelby categorizes different mindsets alienated parents might adopt, from the "Over Analyzer" to the "Justice Seeker," each influenced by certain cognitive biases such as confirmation bias and naive realism. For example, the "Justice Seeker" might feel a duty to expose wrongdoings, driven by indignance and a belief in accountability. Shelby emphasizes that while these roles might initially seem empowering, they often reinforce feelings of isolation and bitterness.

Shifting Perspectives:

A central theme in Shelby's discussion is the need to transition from judgment to curiosity. This involves asking questions like, "What might another perspective be?" and "How can we find common ground?" By doing so, parents can foster an environment of openness and connection rather than division.

The Neuroscience Behind Moral Outrage:

Shelby explains how the brain's addiction to outrage stems from a chemical release that offers short-term relief. Anger, while temporarily uplifting compared to shame, is not a sustainable emotional state. Recognizing this can pave the way for healthier emotional responses, allowing parents to break free from the cycle of outrage and victimization. 

Practical Communication Prompts:

 Shelby provides practical prompts for moments of conflict, such as when a child expresses reluctance to visit. By engaging with questions like, "Can you help me understand what's coming up for you?" parents model empathy and promote understanding. This approach can significantly improve relationships and communication, showcasing Shelby's expertise in turning relational challenges into opportunities for growth.

Conclusion:

For alienated parents, embracing a mindset shift from policing morality to fostering compassion can transform the journey from one of isolation to one of healing and connection. As Shelby emphasizes, the key to navigating this journey lies in curiosity and understanding, allowing parents to rebuild not only their relationships but also their sense of self-worth.

In this podcast episode, Shelby Milford guides alienated parents through the complexities of right versus wrong thinking, offering insights into how these patterns can hinder or help healing. By exploring cognitive biases, neuroscience, and practical communication strategies, Shelby illuminates a path toward compassion and reconnection. 

---

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

  You are listening to The Beyond The High Road Podcast with Shelby Milford, episode number 156. .

 Welcome to Beyond the High Road, a podcast dedicated to healing your heart and life following the grief of alienation. I'm your host, Shelby Milford, a twice certified life coach specializing in post-traumatic growth. If you're experiencing the effects of alienation and you're ready to heal, then this show is my love letter to you.

 

 Hey guys, how are we doing today?  So we have, uh, another review today, and I haven't actually read it yet.  Alexandra Unshakeable says, seriously, question mark. Exclamation.  Every single time I press play, whether it's starting a new episode or resume an episode, I already started whatever issue I'm feeling.

Shelby is saying something directly to me. At least it feels that way. Ha ha. Anxious parenting in the last episode equals me. And what I'm struggling with, I'm not smiling at that part. I'm sorry, Alexandra. My ex has convinced my 13-year-old that they need to move away out of state.

I'm crumbling and feel hopeless, but I'm not. thank Shelby for shining the light back on me so I can learn how to shape my parent child relationship. Much love, Alex.  Thank you for that review. And I, that's actually not the first time that I've heard something similar to that.

Um, about like every time I turn it on, it ends up being like, what was going on with me? And sometimes I think we'll find, extract the information that we need in the moment and that we're ready to hear too.

, It's like right when we're open, just like anything, when we're open to learning a new way, then all of these different doors and windows open that were already there, and the messages were waiting for you to, to be able to receive them, you know?

And it works like that for me too, trust me, I have had that experience. What Alexandra and Jacob will just shared, , happen in my own life so often. And it is really moving when that does happen, because it's like you've crossed over the threshold and into , a new way of living, really in a new way of seeing your world.

Even if it's just a small shift, you know, or something like a breakthrough of some sort. Now you know, you could take it as like, oh, this is what I need to hear because I'm so far behind.  And I don't think that's what she was saying here,  but it can be like that, right? Where like, oh, look at how much I have to do.

Or it could also be like,  maybe now you can hear it, you're able to take it in, look at all the growth that you've done. The fact that you're able to receive the message in the way , in the depth, you know, like to the degree that you are now probably is much different than it was, or much higher, more,

Than it was maybe, , a month ago, a year ago,  what have you. I know that's the case for me too. We tend to like, revisit things sort of , cyclically and what we scratch the surface for the first go around that we visit a, a topic or conversation,, each time we're able to extract and utilize, relate with to more, deeper.

So anyway, thank you Alexandra for the, for the review. I much appreciate it as always, and yeah, so if you haven't written a review and you are noticing that these episodes have been helping or  maybe even if they haven't or that you've got suggest anything, please shoot me an email with any suggestions or questions that you have,

, if you need some clarification or maybe you have a different point of view, that's not my point of view, I would love to hear it.  So, and that, this actually, my last little phrase right there, ties into the episode today, to the topic for today, which is, basically about black, white thinking, but especially coming from right, wrong thinking, as an alienated parent, like  that's wrong. What they're doing is wrong and I am always trying to do the right thing and they're not, why doesn't anybody else get punished?

That sort of thing,  and then we're gonna touch on what that can turn into and like the drawbacks of that kind of thinking. We're talking about moral outrage.  Especially these days with social media, having all these different platforms in play and how that feeds our own self-righteousness,   and when I'm using the term or the word righteous today, righteousness, please know that I'm using it in the context of like based in psychology, more than I am using it.

In fact, I'm not Mostly not, let me just say that. Basing what I'm talking about on like religious God based righteousness. Okay. I mean, of course there's gonna be an element of that because , many of us have this idea or, have adopted the concept that there's something bigger than us, right?

And so that's usually what, where most people's moral compasses sort of, uh, derive from, you know, so the it's go there is gonna be that element, but mostly I'm talking about it in a secular sense, if that makes sense. Okay. Alright. Because I don't wanna get any, the one thing I don't wanna do is get into a religious debate, , especially oops, on this show.

, But yeah, anyway, here's how I'm gonna, structure this. We've got, I've got so much research that I did. In fact, when I,  okay, so when I decided on this topic, it was weeks ago, but there were so many different, motivators

and initially I was going to do it on moral outrage as it relates to alienation, right? Like It's talking about social media and how will get very like, self-righteous indignance, right? Where we're like, that's wrong, they're wrong. And we sort of pit ourselves against, it's like the people that are at the ingroup and the Outgroup, right?

Outgroup being anybody that supports Alienators, alienators themselves, yada yada, The wrongdoers of the world and the right doers of the world is if, and if you were watching, you'll see that I'm pointing towards me as the right doer and them as the wrong doers. The outgroup, right?  That's an attitude that many, many of us have taken.

And I'm gonna go into the reasons why in just a minute. Well throughout, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna do an overview of that in a minute. But this was, a request by John. Thank you for your request on that. , He requested it, but then also I noticed, first I noticed it in others because it's just how it works.

And then of course I noticed it in my own self, but then I also noticed , the right, wrong thinking ,  it's a pain point for so many of my clients, myself included. I was my first real client, you know, and it really held me back in so many areas.  like especially in the beginning of my healing.

But really all throughout, I think it's, this is one of those concepts or the, these ideas, it's really based in ego that can hold so many of us back and keep us stuck in this pattern of wanting to determine who's right and who's wrong. Okay. But also, I was on TikTok. I don't know when, and I notice this all the time, this isn't like a, but there was a one particular time that I'm thinking of where there was, uh, you know,  you get the people that wanna put in their 2 cents the Karens of the world,  And even the way I'm saying that is indicating that I still have some judgment and self, some self-righteousness there. So just know that I know that I'm a work in progress too,  anyway. The comments that this one person was making, I didn't take the comments personally. I was more being self-righteous on the inside about their self-righteousness and how many people will go on to social media, like start their scrolling session, if you will, with the intention to look for certain things and those certain things. our.

Pointing out how people are wrong in the world, pointing out the injustices, the fallacies, the errors in information, data reporting from the users. Do you know what I'm saying? They're the sayers, you know, and this person had no clue. You could tell that the comment was made based solely on that one snippet of a video,

the 32nd video that I had posted that only based on a knee jerk reaction to immediately attack. And I thought, that's so interesting how people will latch onto snippets because that's what, the algorithm, supports, , they want short content, a bit polarizing and maybe anger, inducing sort of content without very much context in order to grab attention.

That's really what the algorithms support mostly, you know, I mean, other things too, but that's a, that's a big player in it and it social media,  I know I'm going down the rabbit hole with this, but I think it's important social media, plays on the predictability that. Humans will go towards negative more than they will go to a positive.  it's just the human brain's desire to always wanna look for danger and. The atrocities of the world, So that's what actually got me really invested in doing this topic is that like people,  there are so many people out there that get on social media for the purposes of making themselves feel better for whatever else is going on in their lives, and directing their anger towards somebody else in the way of pointing out how they are flawed, you know?

And  though that doesn't have much to do with alienation, like seemingly on the surface, it really does if we dig deeper and look at the dynamic of alienation,  So that's what got me interested in it. And I was thinking to myself back the day that I was initially thinking this, that  if people would just do like a accountability check when before they got on social media and ask themselves to   📍 📍 define a purpose for why they were going to sit in this however long scrolling session and   📍 like really determined what it is they wanted to find, then there would be a lot less negativity in the world, spewed outwards, like pre-judgment, you know, based in a lot of cognitive biases and like therefore a lot less division between us. 

Now I'm speaking kind of personally, but like being that alienation already is a pretty polarizing topic for a lot of people, especially the parents of the world. It makes sense that, of course the posts that I put out there can be activating to some, right?

But when we're out there looking for just like how I always talk about that whatever you're looking for, your brain is gonna help you find, if you're out there looking for the negativity or the people that are wrong or the injustices of the world, you will find it.

Your brain will go to work on eliminating all of the good and finding the stuff that we need to police, you know? So anyway, that was a long introduction, but that's how, basically how it started. And then of course, , this is such a huge pain point because if you're like me, how I am and was, I think we all have this tendency to initially want to  explain a way or find the reason or rationalize why somebody would behave in such a terrible way.

 

The brain would rather focus externally, And be in a place of anger than it would focus internally and be in a place of shame,  okay? And I'm gonna talk about that more here in a minute. But  either way, let's just say that anger or shame of those are the choices that you're giving yourself. Like if it's between just those two, then you are not going to be propelling yourself in a way that feels quote unquote good, or also quote unquote, right?

Moving forward, if those are the choices that you're giving yourself,   📍 📍 📍 📍 so right now, I'm gonna go into, I've sort of sectioned this off into, I think there's five segments to this. And the first part we're gonna be talking about comparative righteousness, what it is, and the four different sort of types, personality types, or like mindsets that.

Parents like us might fall into. Okay. And then I'm gonna talk about, in, in each of those, I'm gonna talk about the key. , Cognitive biases that are in play for each one of those types. And also some common phrases to help you to identify if you fit into, or which one you fit into the most. Or maybe there's a couple of 'em.

I mean, this is nothing, it's not no, like set in stone. You are this, you are that. I'm not big on labeling. I just think sometimes it's good to see which characteristics that I take on and what that sounds like for me . So I know where I'm going from here, So we're gonna go into the common phrases in each one of those roles that you might play.   📍 📍 And then we're gonna go into the roots of Right Wrong Mindset. Kind of like I just barely touched on just a minute ago as far as why we do it. A little bit about what I learned from Eckhart Tole.

then I'm gonna go into the neuroscience of going against and being, the Ingroup outgroup sort of scenario in order for you to find peace. Some sort of, , conviction and grounding. ,   📍 📍 And then I'm gonna go into what we can do and how we can shift from judgment to curiosity and compassion and understanding. 

Okay, by the way, I was gonna record yesterday and I hit the record button and my power went out like within a matter of 30 seconds, it all happened and my power did not come back on until, uh, seven 30 or eight o'clock last night.

So, um, I am recording this at 1240 on the day of 1249 on the day of release. So this should be fun Anyway, it's more of a personal comment there, but, um, and it happens to just be a long, , a lot of information, but I've really outlined it. I made sure when the power went off yesterday to really hone in on, make my outlining and wording succinct.

So we should be good. Okay. So if you notice that you are, Kind of stuck in a place because you're been telling yourself that they're wrong. I'm right. How come they don't get punished? And I always do. there's different rules for them and not for me. They're, the ones with the bad views.

And I'm the one with the good views. I'm gonna, now I'm gonna go into the four different types of that, right? With the motivations, if you will, and we'll go from there. So the first type would be   📍 📍 📍 the over analyzer. And this parent is constantly seeking to make every decision according to what is right, by reviewing every possible outcome, weighing like your ethical standards, consulting authorities, right? Looking at all the books, consuming all the information, which I know I did still do a lot, like buffering my life away a little bit by equipping myself with knowledge. Talking to therapists, parenting books, the endless pursuit to gain the knowledge and figure out what's right and what's wrong, and live by that leads to analysis, paralysis and anxiety

and it can end up bleeding to a sense that your choices are never good enough, like that the search for the right answer is ongoing and you will always be looking for some magic answer, instead of feeling empowered, parent feels isolated and judged by their own impossible standards, rarely experiencing peace of mind and missing opportunities to connect authentically with their child children.

  📍 📍 📍 Okay, so the key biases in play here, all or nothing, thinking dichotomous thinking, sees every decision as either right or wrong. Rarely allowing for nuance or good enough sort of solutions. B minus sort of solutions as opposed to a plus. Plus plus, always.  📍 Confirmation bias is another one.

You're selectively seeing information that confirms the correct answer. And then ignoring the contradicting evidence, Perpetuating this analysis paralysis experience, right?   📍 Perfectionism,

which backs the idea that only the perfect option is acceptable,

which actually perfectionism, I don't know that it's a cognitive bias per se, but it's a type of unhelpful sort of thinking style that a lot of us get stuck in.  it's a distortion is what I guess that could be classified as a cognitive distortion, not a bias, but anyway, you get the picture now.

But I think it's important that I put that there because the person who's overanalyzing is looking for , the perfect solution to whatever problem is at hand, And so if you're constantly outsourcing ? Looking for somebody else that would have the answer, researching, trying to get in this day and age, let me tell you, I am so guilty of that myself too.

Even just for non-malignant or non-threatening sort of situations and scenarios. I mean, who doesn't either Google or Grok or AI something these days, right? Answers that we know that we can come up with ourselves, but instead, what do we do? We either call somebody that we know we do you think, right?

Or we Google it or do whatever in order to get the perfect answer. And yes, I do think that that is a really helpful way to go about your, um, whole process of dec deciding who you are and what you want and what is good for you and also what of course, what is not. However, of course, everything in , moderation, right?

If you're only using that and only outsourcing and not utilizing what the information that you already have and basing it on , your, moral code, if you will, or your core values, then it, there might be something that you could look at in there. Okay. Alright.   📍 📍 📍 So the common phrases that you might say.

now this is, I'm aiming this, I need these phrases, aimed toward the alienating parent, but you adjust them as needed, their basic gist of what, the over analyzer might say. If you just followed the proper process, none of this would've happened.

if they would just follow the decree, none of this would happen, there's a correct way to resolve this, but they refused to use proper judgment, some version of that, right? There's a way to solve this.

There's a right way to do this, but they just refuse to do it. They have no moral code. Their actions never make sense. They're always so unpredictable and wrong. I wish they just stick to the facts instead of making everything so confusing. Okay? And I wanna point out here that though this sounds, this one sounds like a reasonable way to go about life is like if people would just stick to the facts.

In fact, that's something that I share with you guys a lot, make everything very factual and neutral, but facts, oftentimes the way that people, when they're saying this are. Not facts. They're opinions, they're assessments of what's going on, and they have tone and inflection and are activating, the facts or the truth isn't necessarily always universal or objective.

Okay? And that's what I think is the key distinction there for that phrase. Anyway, there's a right way to handle this, and I can't rest until I figure it out, or there's a right way to handle this. And why can't they see? Why won't they just do what's right sort of thing, I can't let myself make the wrong move again. It will just prove them right. that was a big one for me. I don't wanna make the wrong move because I don't wanna prove them right?

They can't be right as if it was one or the other. Black, white, right, wrong, which gets you into that same analysis paralysis and feeling like that. There always has to be , the polar , opposites and no context, right? We forget that there's all these different gray areas and, Considerations, you know, , why can't they see that there's a correct way to handle this? You know, if I'm not methodical, I'm failing as a parent if I'm not doing, and this is huge. I may not be worded this way for you guys, but this is huge.

I think it was for me, is that if I don't do things the same way every time and apply the same principles, then I'm failing as a parent. Because then I would be, uh,

hypocrite. I couldn't come up with that word. , If I'm not methodical, then I'm a hypocrite, And then I'm failing as a parent, that was huge for me. I thought that I really had to uphold even the past beliefs that I knew that I didn't believe anymore. But if I'd said it out loud in front of an audience in some way, or if I demonstrated this a certain belief in front of an audience, then I needed to carry that with me as like luggage for the rest of my life.

 And that's just not the case. Like I, in fact, more and more I believe that. Feeling like you need to always uphold and demonstrate the beliefs that you may not even carry anymore, will limit your growth tremendously in that I'm always looking to expand my beliefs, right?

And see other ways, other ideas, so that there is no in or out group, right? So that I can see all the sides, right? And then that way it relieves the pressure, you know, of having the right answer, the wrong answer, the right follow up, the wrong. You get me 

📍 📍 📍 alright, so the next type of person is the justice seeker. This parent feels responsible for exposing all wrongdoing by the co-parent, the legal system, or even the child. You can expand this out to the rest of your life, you know, um, especially with justice seeking. I think that it just by the nature of this, uh, mindset or persona, however you wanna say, that just by the nature of it, it will expand out into all the other areas because you wanna expose the injustices of the world.

The justice seeker may vent their frustrations publicly, correct. Perceived injustices and conversations and police every interaction for truth or fairness. Now, this really touches home with regard to what I was saying earlier about social media and how social media sort of rewards this behavior, and creates this whole, it perpetuates the whole problem that we all find ourselves in, which is divisiveness as opposed to togetherness,

others start to withdraw from them, seeing these behaviors as exhausting or combative. So if this happens, like if you are the justice seeker or like you have taken on some of these qualities, right? This mindset, then maybe you've noticed if it's been a while that you've been like this, that you might feel really alone because your friends have sort of dwindled, right?

And that is not because you are a bad person or that there's something wrong with you. And I, of course, you guys know that. I mean that through throughout all of these. But if you feel like your truth is a burden and it's actually even pushing other people away from you, this might be why you end up on this emotional island by yourself feeling victimized by the unfairness of the world and then also the lack of reciprocation of love by the people closest to you, because they are just tired of hearing all of the contention coming from you.

If you're here, then you're really, probably, even if you have some big win as far as seeking justice and getting a win, it's never going to be enough. And you're always gonna be wanting more, and you'll never experience relief as a result of that, or feel like you've made any progress because you carry this impossible burden of correcting the world. 

📍 📍 📍 So the key biases involved in justice seeker mentality is naive realism, naive realism is pretty much how it sounds. , Whoever is taking on the justice seeker attitude, it assumes that their perception of fairness.

Truth, what's right is the only objective reality. And any disagreement is seen as ignorance or moral

wrongness, right? As a, as seen, as a flaw. naive, we see naive realism. Not just in this, but it's a very good example is pointing to, and I'm sure you guys all have it in your mind right now, politics left versus right, right versus left. And then especially in today's climate, you guys the recent events and stuff like that.

. It's very evident. . That's the demonization of the other side.   📍 another bias is the, it's group bias In group outgroup, which I was sort of just referencing a few minutes ago. Righteous in Nation is intensified by identifying strongly with the good side and policing the outsiders.

. Which we've talked about this before, I'm sure on several occasions where there is really, I'm gonna get further into this and just a little bit when we talk about where this all comes from, like the origin and the roots of your desire, if this is you to label right and wrong, but.

in the group bias, there is such a strong pull to come together in groups and whether it's positive or negatively motivated. there's a, it is great force and like, I was just talking with a client about this the other day, like we were talking about,, Joe Dispenza and his, conventions, you know, or , his three day weekend retreats, you know, and the great results that people get by going Tony Bins, another one.

Um, people like that. Motivational, even religious retreats or what have you, even like summer camp for kids, if they have these, a specific positive rituals and songs that they sing and what have you. It's really powerful very dynamic. Right? And then on the other side of things, in the negative way it is. Because as I touched on earlier, negative has five times more The effect than positive does. Think about the negatively motivated side of things, right? The groups that are like really born to hate on the others, right?

This is wrong, they're wrong, uh, whistleblowers sort of thing. The, the negative energy that, and closeness, the bonds that are formed from that are, um, remarkable. You know, it is a, it's a force, you know, but to the group, bias is another cognitive bias, right? Where people will get together and all sort of latch onto the same belief no matter what, who it's hurting, right?

And feel this drive, this force to like, make everybody else believe it. Cult, same thing, okay?   📍 Labeling, we've talked about this on several occasions too. Assigning a fixed moral roles to themselves, the hero and others, the villains, right? Labeling behaviors as either bad or good, right or wrong. Like I'm, we've, this whole episode is really about, is going to separate you because usually when we're labeling, I mean, it can happen occasionally where everybody else is right and we're wrong.

And if we're going into like attachment styles, that would be the anxious person that would go there. I mean, there's overlap, but it doesn't always have to be overlap between attachment styles and biases and the, the roles that you might play.  📍 📍 📍

Anyway, some of the phrases that you might use as a justice seeker would be, it's outrageous what they're doing. I won't stand for their lies anymore. someone needs to hold them accountable, no one should get away with this. How can they sleep at night knowing how much pain that they've caused? Y'all?

I know. No, like, put, I would put money on that. Every single one of you has thought that thought, you know, including me, how do they sleep at night? Knowing the pain they've caused, not only in our children, but in our lives and all the other people that our extended family, you know what I'm saying?

Right? This is one that I think so many people would die on that hill of like, just go down. Like, that's it. I, I will stick with this belief. And knowing that they are so morally wrong for causing so much pain. And how could anybody, on their judgment day, if that's what you believe, how could they ever be happy with the result that they get because of what they've done to everybody in their life?

The karma, you know? All right, I'm gonna make sure everyone knows the truth about what they've done. And as soon as I read that out loud, I wrote it earlier yesterday, but when I read it out loud, it just immediately reminded me, of course, I'm gonna go outsource and go to other people and not. Think about it for me, but that phrase is almost exactly to a t what my ex said to me during an exchange.

One of the initial exchanges, first or second exchange, after our first court hearing where I was awarded primary custody. This is what he said to me.

I'm gonna make sure that everyone knows the truth about what you've done. I'm gonna, when she's 16, I will tell her everything that you've done, I'll show her the monster you are anyway. someone has to stand up for what's right here. That's another thing that would phrase that you might say if you're a justice seeker.

It's the burden of having to expose the wrongdoers of the world. That is the justice seekers' motivation behind it, I'm going to out these people because what they're doing is wrong. so I wrote here the justice seekers' compulsion to defend fairness and correct perceived wrongs, feeling a sense of duty to intervene.

, I refuse to let them get away with this. I need to call it out. Driven by indignance and the need to expose bad behavior. Believing silence equals complicity. Okay. You feel drawn to expose the truth because if not, then you are complicit in the, the wrongdoing.

. Which , I think there's context that that deserves, you know, because if you're always feeling that that's your only mission in life is because if you, if I'm silent, then that means I'm guilty too. Um, to the point where you are not taking care of yourself and also not upholding the other morals that you're holding them to the standards of.

If I don't police this, they'll never face consequences. The belief that justice depends entirely on their own vigilance, Is the justice seekers sort of view of the world and their motivation behind it. .  📍 📍 📍

 

Alright. All right. The next type is the rigid role model. . And so this person is usually striving to be the perfect parent. The perfect models all choices based on very strict subjective views, Never showing emotion, always being productive, never making mistakes, not in the way that they're seeing it anyway, right? They believe that this will earn back their child's respect and rebuild lost trust. But such rigidity usually makes the relationships feel transactional and performative. I have experience with, a few clients in the past that the duty to just do what's right, put your head down and only do the right thing.

And that's what they live on. Is, is actually very pressy. But the, the parent that's here in this rigid role model in their minds. They need the rigidity in order to perform up to par. But what that ends up translating to as far as your, your relations, your connection with your kiddos, it can come off and you might have heard from them that it feels transactional and like that they have to live up to your expectations of them. 

Now, when I just said that, just know too, that I know on the other side of things that they come up with, um. Seemingly like trivial reasons why they're not going to honor the parenting time or the schedule or whatever, you know, talking about your kid because they just bring up whatever they can. So just know that I'm not trying to reinforce or back up what they're saying about you.

I'm just saying that if you notice any of the similarities here, then it's something that you might wanna look at for your own experience, not because I'm trying to assign blame here. Okay. All right.  This , parent feels increasingly disconnected from their own feelings and from others and their child's senses.

A lack of authenticity deepening the emotional goal.   📍 📍 📍 the key biases that are in play here are overgeneralization. You apply broad rules from single offense. The example I came up with here is once an abuser, always an abuser. And I know that when I came up with that, I'm probably better worded once a cheater, always a cheater.

I think that's , less activating. I just know that some people could hear that and be like, well, aren't they? And yes and no. There's, again, there deserves context because you can display an abusive behavior and not be an abuser infect. Nobody is really ever just an abuser.

That's just another label that we're putting on somebody. They may consistently, display abusive behavior but labeling is just gonna cause a problem anyway, so when it's activating and what have you. But that's really what, over generalization, that's what I'm referring to.

You know, once cheater always a cheater, they'll never judge. Leard never changes their spot. So if they did that once, they're gonna do it again. You know, that's why I kind of disagree with those, pre-employment questionnaires, like personality evaluations because it aims to put people in these boxes and label them as what they are, right?

Like Myers-Briggs and all that. I think that they're useful, but again, just only going off of that in order to, like the AI it's the way of weeding people out, right? But sometimes I'm sure that they miss out on some really great candidates because of the way that they're weeding people out and the way that those questions are worded.

Anyway, another topic for another day, but, it's feeding inflexible expectations basically is the overgeneralization. It's not helpful, let's just put it that way. Ethnocentrism is another one of the biases there. It's assumes that. your family's culture or morals are universally right, or your ideas are universally right, resisting alternative perspectives or parenting styles.

Okay? So that's when you could say, well, there is one right? And there's one wrong way. And they're not doing it. They're the ones that are wrong. Of course, they're the ones that are, that are wrong in your mind because you're seeing it from your perspective. So anyway, selective abstraction is the other one is it focuses only on deviations from their moral code, ignoring the evidence of growth or any context associated with it. 

I'm speeding through this now 'cause I realize how long this episode's gonna be, but  here are some of the phrases , that you might say if you identifying with the rigid role model.   📍 📍 In my house, we do what's right, unlike them.   📍 📍 They clearly don't know what being a good parent means.  📍 📍

If they only would live up to proper standards, we wouldn't be in this mess. .  📍 📍 I never break the rules, but they seem to think it's acceptable.  I know that some of these, it may not be the exact words, but the ideas are there and I know that many of you guys can relate to it.

I know that I can, these are similar to phrases that I would've said back in the day and not even realize that that was an assessment or, uh, a subjective opinion on my part. I would've thought that I was stating facts   📍 📍 if they would only just follow the,

custody order, then we wouldn't be in this mess,  and I'm not saying that's not true, but again, too, like look at your perceptions and if you're considering your beliefs to be, fact, then you're gonna have a hard time moving, to , any sort of solution and , creating peace for yourself because you're living by these really harsh, rigid standards that you have somehow along the way picked up , throughout your experiences in life, maybe from early childhood from all these different places, but you've never actually looked to question each and every one of those beliefs and standards that you're holding the world up to.

Okay. All right.

So in the rigid role model. Mindset, rules and consistency are paramount. This person expects conformity because they've set a gold standard. This is how we should all live. Why aren't they following it? It doesn't always have to sound so, um, egocentric or like, that. Your way is the only way.

It could be the way, this is the way won't, why won't they just follow this universally right way? It's not like that. You had to come up with it. You know what I'm saying? Right? Being a good parent means never showing weakness or doubt in this person's mind,? It just means showing solidified .

I'm always consistent. This has always been the way, this will always be the way, and that is that, vulnerability is seen as failure. This character's identity is built around unyielding standards.

black and white expectations.   📍 📍 📍 All right? The last one is the personal martyr. Whenever alienation, pain flares this parent doubles down on sacrifice doing only the right thing. That's in air quotes here. According to their inner rules, regardless of self-care or needs, they take pride in enduring suffering, hoping this will showcase their integrity.

This is if I could pick one out of all these four that I see in almost all of us, it's this one because we are victims, you know, it makes sense that this would be one of the characteristics or like mindsets that we would step into because we have been victimized. Something was done to us, at us, to our children, we've gotten to the place where we feel helpless and defeated.

So the martyr attitude is like almost, uh, I don't wanna say unavoidable, but it's just so, feels native, like, feels like the only way to go, you know? So, , you take pride in during the suffering hoping that will showcase your integrity. But the whole time that you're do gooding, right, doing only the right thing, your exhaustion and your bitterness grows silently.

It's like a snowball, slow moving, snowball, downhill, you know, feeling unseen, misunderstood, , underappreciated, unappreciated. Their sense of victimhood expands, but the underlying need for love, healing, and connection goes unmet. In each scenario.

The drive to do only what's right becomes a heavy burden, creating further separation from others and undermining the very healing and relationship repair the parents seeks.   📍 📍 📍 So the key biases involved here are mental filtering, filtering out any sort of appreciation or support aimed at the, personal martyr parent,

focusing only on the burdens and sacrifices in dirt, to maintain a narrative of suffering for the right, for the good of your relationship, of your parenthood, of your child's childhood, of the whole story, right? You this, I see a lot with parents who have been alienated sometimes for years, right?

and they have gone on mentally filtering the world around them to fit into this narrative that they're the ones that keep doing right and keep getting stepped on by the world. Okay? I know that really, this is one that I know can be really sensy for some people because nobody wants to admit that they're the a martyr or it's taken on that martyrdom in their mind or like , the victim, right?

Nobody wants to recognize that because then that means that they're soft or something, or they don't have integrity or they're, looking for excuses, you know? And the last part I think is definitely true, especially in my case.

I was just thinking about this the other day too, maybe yesterday, about how I really looked for excuses. I know I was thinking about it because, you know, the power went out yesterday and I just hit the record button and I was really, I, I was genuinely like, damn, 'cause I really wanted to record this episode, right?

And I wanted to get it done beforehand, so I'm not doing it all in one day, whatever. But I was thinking about how just few, 5, 6, 7 short years ago, I would've latched on to the fact that the power went out as my excuse, my free pass to be late. But why, why I really ultimately wanna do this episode? Because first off, I think it's fascinating.

Second off, I wanna bring this out to you guys and help you guys, right? So why would I be welcoming some sort of excuse, you know? Anyway, I find it fascinating the. Coping mechanisms and sort of attitudes, ideas that we take on and not question them in the moment.

We just take them on because they serve a purpose cognitively, emotionally at the time. And then we don't realize that we will carry those ideas, the excuses, for the rest of our lives. , We just keep reinforcing these things that worked for us once, and they, but when I say worked, I don't really mean worked because excuses are a way to limit us, hold us back anyway. Um, esp limit us to hold us back from the things that we really, ultimately wanna do or achieve, you know? So . Victim bias is another one of the key biases here is that actually more of maybe a distortion, a cognitive distortion.

It is a bias, I don't know. I'd have to look that up. Anyway, you get the picture right, is that it interprets events through the lens of personal injustice and moral struggle, often seeing themselves as uniquely responsible for upholding righteousness. That's what I think is so interesting about this mentality, is that we feel like somebody's gotta be the one that does the right thing here.

Right. And we feel so unique and set apart, and we mean it in a good way. , It's well intended, but by doing that, we don't even realize that we're actually isolating ourselves more. And it's not that unique, you know, anyway, it's just the ego's way of trying to impose what it wants, which is to always make us defined and separate from everybody else, which I'm also gonna talk about in a minute.

But yeah, the last bias in the personal martyr is labeling. This is gonna be a long episode. I just realized I'm almost an hour into it and I'm, anyway,

key phrases that, the personal martyr might say.   📍 📍 Of course, I'm always the one left picking up the pieces after their mistakes. I'm the one that gets the brunt of this. I'm picking up the pieces and making everything better after all the damage they've caused.   📍 📍 Nobody notices how much I have to sacrifice thanks to their selfish behavior, how much I've already sacrificed thanks to their selfish behavior, their abusive behavior, whatever you wanna say.  📍 📍

I wish they realized how hard this all is for me. I'm the only one truly suffering here.  which by the way, I know that most of you parents out there, um, US parents, I should say out there also really are concerned about our children too. But I know for me , that there were times where I was so down the dark rabbit hole of torture and suffering that I was, there were moments where I was like, I'm the only one that's suffering.

She seems fine, and I'm over here outcast and by myself. So it is there. It's not that we always think that way, but there can be like, you know, mindsets or trains of thought that bring us there to being the only one that's truly in pain here.   📍 📍 If I don't keep doing the right thing, the whole family falls apart.

So I have to be the one that upholds us all.  You see this too? I can, as soon as I said that out loud, I think of that in like bigger extended family settings where like Uncle Bubba, I don't know, whoever, , you know, the sickest member of the family determines the health of the rest of the family or something like that. I don't know what that saying is, but it's something like that where we think that.

We have to counteract the worst behaving person in a group, okay?   📍 📍 Nobody else seems to care about what's truly best. That's why I have to bear this burden.   📍 📍 It's always on me to make the right choice, no matter how hard it is.  It internalizes all this struggle as a proof of virtue, right?

Making hardship part of your identity. So if you are one that says that my life is hard, I'm the one that always carries the burden. This may have come from your childhood too, where like if you had brothers and sisters or people that you cared for, um, even if that was more silently that you tried to hold down , the fort,

and keep everybody even keel. This could have been where it developed for you too. Um, but just 'cause it developed then if it's not working for you today, you can obviously, um, become aware of it and start making changes, right? And some of those changes will just happen by, uh, the simple willingness to be aware, if I let up for a second, everything falls apart, so I have to carry it on. Okay. You take on excess responsibility, convince that the family's wellbeing rests solely on your relentless efforts.

 

  All right, now we're going to the next section where we're gonna talk about like the origin or the roots of right versus wrong mindset. I'm gonna talk about it based in neuroscience first, and then I'm gonna talk about it more based in psychology and then we'll go from there.

Okay. So the reason that discerning between right and wrong turns into anger. And then maybe even outrage when we've gotten to the outrage place which is the second alienation probably starts, you know, on the inside for us.

Like maybe there's confusion and sort of bewilderment at first, like, what the fuck is happening here? And then after you collect more evidence, , we start to become angered and. Lots of emotions there, but anger towards the other parent and the outrage can go to all the people that would support it.

You know how that goes. the reason that outrage is, I believe such a, force is that our brain gets addicted to the outrage itself. Like back when I was talking about people that come onto social media, to scroll, just to look for things that are, outrage inducing, I think outrageous isn't actually the same thing as outrage inducing.

Yeah, .  Okay, let me paint this in. If you are not feeling good about yourself or not feeling a bit good about your situation, like something happened in court, something didn't happen. Your kid didn't come,, for the weekend and you're not feeling good, then  we go into a place of anger because one anger it's a higher frequency emotion than shame or Fear defeated ness and all of that anger actually is higher frequency than those  nobody really ever wants to live and think in their own puddle of shame, right? It's not fun at all. And so the easiest way out of it, kind of almost like as if you're coming out of a stress response, like you've got, fight, flight, freeze, fawn

when you're in freeze, the only way to sort of get yourself out of freeze is to come back down that cycle, and sort of the same thing here, like when you're in that place of shame,  a lot of times anyway, and I want to say that for both. It's not always that way with the trauma cycle,  but it's a efficient way for the brain to pull out of shame by going, especially social media, but you can apply this to anything and finding other things to be outraged at, whether that has to do with alienation or not.

It really just depends on you ., But we will turn our shame all the other lower, , frequency emotions into anger because it's the easiest way to go and it feels better.   📍 📍 Our brain gets addicted to outrage because outrage is dramatic and drama releases feel-good.

Chemicals, endorphins, When we're not feeling good, drama triggers those endorphins which numb all of your thoughts and cause euphoria.  So it makes sense why people latch onto negativity and hate because this will numb all of the feelings of shame, of unworthiness, of underappreciated, this,

that they're being cast aside and they go straight to anger and it feels good because your brain secretes the chemicals from that drama is an easy way to get out of that. And you can notice this in like the most slight, almost undetectable, ways, like thoughts that might happen, but we'll, we can get to that.

, I can do it in another episode, but,, that's why we're drowned. More outrage when we're feeling unworthy or beaten down, so we go and look, we scroll for. Outrage inducing posts so that we can numb all the shame and get on board with a purpose, right?

And that purpose would be to externally express the outrage, That's the reaction. Outrage is the response that we have to the right, wrong thinking, okay, so you have right, wrong, black, white, all of these different styles that I just kind of outlined here, which by the way, aren't the only styles you could come up with whatever you want.

I just section 'em into four thingies. So we get the right, wrong thinking, we get frustrated by it, and our response is to go outrage,   📍 📍 externally expressing outrage by punishing the villain, releases dopamine.  So you get the endorphins from searching out the drama when you're scrolling or when you're searching out the drama and emails, searching out the drama and what they might be doing over there,

You're feeling shame or you're feeling unworthy, you're feeling cast aside. You're not gonna wanna stick there because it's discomfort. So it's gonna go, what pulls us out of this? Oh, right. Anger does. So we're gonna go search for things that cause us anger, which release endorphins and then we double down. And if we end up going end outrage, voicing our anger to the world or to the person, then now we've also released a reward dopamine.

Okay. So that's the main reason Neurochemically speaking, we do this. anger feels better than shame. I mean, in the moment it does, it feels there's more energy behind it. Shame feels very vulnerable and weak. And like US centered anger is out it relies on the exertion external forces.

On the psychological side of things, there's a lot of ego at play or like, and fear. The ego's fear of losing itself when we feel cast aside, rejected, alienated from our children and our families and all of our social circles, the ego is fighting to stay strong you know, to win.

 

When we turn our deep sadness Longing for shame and all that. Into contempt for others, then the ego feels like it's winning. It gives us that motivation behind all of our, causes, all of our thought processes, everything. Right. I wrote down here that anytime I talk about ego and wanting to hold on to that self-importance that we all have

I think about Eckhart Tolle eckhart said that this is a quote from him.

To uphold the, I thought it needs the opposite thought of the other. The conceptual, I cannot survive without the conceptual other,

and the others are most other when I see them as my enemies. So what I'm, what that's saying here, because he does talk a bit vague, abstract, his concepts are, and I love them, and can be viewed as somewhat radical, but, what he's saying here is that to emphasize its own importance, the ego constantly compares judges and finds fault with others to sort of make the lines clear about who we are, where we end and others begin, right? That's just what, how ego works. And it works that way from the time that we're like, um, I did whole segment, like a module on this in one of my courses.

In the beginning when we're babies, there is no you and me, right? Everything just. Is And then as years go on, kids get into the developmental stages of like walking and talking and then going into school, right? Preschool and whatever. , They start to get this sense of, oh, okay, first off, like, I am separate from my mom,

That's her. This is me. This definition between mom and child or dad and child, sorry, I don't mean to just say mom, but you know what I'm saying. And then we go off into the world and we see that that separation also exists with all the other people

that's where ego develops.

But then when the ego is most threatened, when it feels at its most vulnerable state, it demonizes others and turns them into the enemy. It provides the ego with a clear role to play, right? The victim or the hero, which temporary inflates your sense of self. Ego isn't always a bad thing, But when we're feeling threatened, the idea is that we want to make somebody the villain so that it's not us, because we've already been the villain in their narrative. So now we have to counteract that. 

 

Basically to summarize that,, to strengthen who I am to the world, the ego will complain, it will hold contempt, blame what have you find fault in to create secure boundaries and make yourself feel seem more defined. Set apart from which makes us feel good in the moment, in that context, right? Like at least I'm not like them. That's how that happens. Which causes us to feel better about who we are, right?

'cause we have something negative to compare ourselves to. It boosts us up. But ultimately, as you guys probably can already tell that by doing that, you're also singling yourself out they're doing it to you, singling you out, and then you're also then reinforcing it and doing it to yourself.

So you're on this special, special snowflake island. So, um, I was thinking about when I was writing all my notes down for this, doing the outline, it made me think about a recent, coaching session. I had, actually a couple of them with one of my clients where we were talking about, , this guy is like the ideal client in my mind. Nobody's the, all the clients are great, all of them everybody brings something different to our conversations and to our relationship, you know, but he really, truly, he recognizes where he wants to do some work, but he also brings it all

and he's not afraid to talk to me about the fact that he has a victim mindset, right? He's like,  I know it's there. I just can't seem to get out of it. I cannot seem to not feel victimized about my life because people in the world are doing wrong. It's a theme in my life, and it always has, and I've always felt set apart is basically,  I'm paraphrasing, but that's basically his, Narrative. Right.  And I feel that because I was there too, and I, , you guys have probably heard me talk about where like I knew I was a victim, that I had the victim mentality and I fucking hated it. I hated it. But it felt, unavoidable. It felt like that was my reality and it was never gonna change.

Like how can it change? Look at what I've endured and what keeps happening. I keep enduring, 

anyway, so he realizes he's like, Shelby, I know that this is a theme in my life and, I don't know how to get around it. And I was like, well, let's get into some specifics. And so we talked about one of the situations going, he's an nail alienated parent. But, um, we talked away from alienation.

'cause like I said, it always, helps to take something a little less activating and talk about it and then apply it to your situations of alienation. But he was talking about how in the office, he has some friends, . But the group of other coworkers he sits with, there's like maybe four or five other coworkers that sit in his immediate area.

his thought was, we're doing a thought model and I know that many of you, unless you've coached with me, don't know really much about that. That's okay though. I put, you know, I always talk about circumstances like facts are neutral. Right? And we have to come up with what that circumstance is so that we can understand the difference between something that happens out there and then what we make of it.

So, his circumstance at work was five dudes that at work that don't speak to him ., What he made that mean is that they're super cliquey and dismissive dicks. Okay. Which is something, it's real. We've all thought stuff like that before. Right? And he, his emotion that that thought created was annoyed.

That was the mild version of the emotion , there was outrage there too, but what he ended up doing from that place when he felt annoyed because he was thinking they're super cliquey and they're dicks and they're dismissive, is that even before he got to work, like on his way from the parking lot into work, he started to put on this attitude of annoyance,

he was already annoyed before he walked in the door because it was the mindset that he had developed over time  because of his narrative,  right? So he's thinking, oh, great, I gotta deal with the super cliquey dicks of the world today to go sit with them so they can dismiss me again. Ignore me again. And so what that created for him, while he's at work, was that he would shut down clothes off and only like on work, and then not attempt.

To have conversations with them, of course. Right. But he would think on the inside, I can't believe I still have to deal with this shit. Like ruminating, not engaging with them, . He would justify the fact that he was closed off because they're the ones that are being dicks.

They're the ones that are, being dismissive and doing all the things right? So he sat and he would play. All his whole narrative was built around them and how they behaved. Well, if they wouldn't behave this way, then my experience wouldn't be this, which is fine and dandy if you wanna keep that, but it's wasn't creating a great result for him.

Right? And he was stuck feeling annoyed every single time he walked into work. also he would go and be extra with the other people across the room like, fuck them, that they're not gonna be nice. Then I'm gonna go talk to these people and I'm gonna be extra about it so that it's the message is sent that I can be cliquey too.

So what's the end result of that? Is my client ends up doing the exact same thing, is what he's accusing them of. So by like thinking the thought that they're cliquey and they're dismissive, he went and was dismissive with them and he continues to be dismissive. Well up until this conversation, dismissive with them, to them, about them and only includes other people, right?

Like, I don't want you anyway, you're not good enough for me. Sort of attitude, which is exactly what he was complaining about with these, the group of quote unquote dicks, you know? . But when, this is the thing with , like this indignant sort of righteousness that we all can get into is that we justify it by saying,  but that's because they did it, right?

That's , it's like kind of a preschooler mentality. I'm not, this is no disrespect to my client or anybody that's doing this. We've all done it,  when we judge, when we label their wrong, I'm right.  Look, and I promise you, you will find that  in your indignance, you end up

being just as much of the offender as the offended, ,, you know,  this happens across the board, anytime we're in judgment and we put ourselves up and them down, like the ego wants us to do, Let's get out of. this icky place of Shamey blamey about ourselves, and let's go direct it towards somebody else.

That way we can push ourselves up and feel better, get out of the pain we're in and outsource it externally. They're the problem. They're the ones. And then when we do that, they're the problem. They're the ones, we're singling them out like we felt singled out. And so we're doing the very thing that we're, we're hating on.

And then, but we're asking for grace because we're doing it for a reason, because they started it because they're behavior is egregious. There's, you know, ridiculous. What we ended up coming up with when my client and I. Dug further into this mindset for him because it was a theme. He self-admittedly, he was like, I always feel singled out and like that people won't talk to me. Though there were cases where he like would go into a new setting, a new environment, not work related, where he didn't have that reaction.

Like at first he was blaming himself and saying like, it must just be me. maybe I just give off like asshole vibe and people don't wanna be around me for that reason. So he started to internalize all of that, right? And then he noticed that when he went into taking some classes at school and doing some other stuff, that it didn't come up.

And other people's experience of him seemed much different than it did in the work environment and also of course in his marriage. Right. And when we looked further into it, though, it all stemmed back, the being set apart, cast aside experience that he was having, like recurring started from when he was a kid.

And it might have been, I'm not believing him here, but it might have been because when he as a kid had to fight a bunch and he always had to protect himself and he got really good at, at fighting other people, right? So he put that persona on when he felt threatened, right? The second that he felt threatened, he put on that, that's okay, I'll just knock you out.

And that'll be the end of that. And then there's no more to discuss. So y'all can go fuck yourself sort of attitude, right? But when he wasn't feeling threatened, IE being in new classes and whatever, then that persona never had to come out. That part of him never had to come out. And his experience of others and their experience of him was much different because he wasn't coming from fear, right?

Anyway, what I'm saying is, is that  sometimes we develop these tools, if you will, these, these behaviors, these i I mindsets when we're kids because we had to, we , thought we had to or whatever, you know, it, it changed our experience as a kid and then we hold onto those and those bleed into our adult life without us ever stopping and looking and questioning those beliefs, mindsets, behaviors, right?

And then now where they once served us, now they're totally not serving us and actually setting us apart even further and complicating or perpetuating each one of these four sort of personas or like this right, wrong attitude and feeling like the world has injustice us.  Does that make sense? Okay. So

I'm gonna go through again, I'm just gonna quickly go down like a few more of those statements. That . Signal, more rigid moral judgment. The things that would cause you to move into the right, wrong mindset more, Perpetuate that mindset. And then I'm gonna give you the alternatives for those.

So some of the common phrases that we probably would use that would perpetuate that would be,   📍 📍 this is just plain wrong.   📍 📍 I'm only doing what's right.   📍 📍 People need to be held accountable for their actions.   📍 📍 I could never do what they did. It's unforgivable,   📍 📍 morally, there's only one way to handle this.   📍 📍 Can't they see how wrong they are?  📍 📍

If they cared, they do the right thing.   📍 📍 I have to stand up for what's right no matter what.   📍 📍 It's my duty to show them the difference between right and wrong. I mean, someone has to,  that last part is like the activating, someone has to 'cause, it's suggesting that somebody else isn't right. Um,   📍 📍 there's no excuse for that kind of behavior.  📍 📍

I shouldn't have to tolerate such bad behavior.  This is another one of those. Or somebody will say that to you. You should, are you gonna tolerate that? And that somebody else's suggestion that you should be not tolerating or not handling things the way that you are, can actually itself instigate outrage.

You know? And I feel like that is like the weakest place to be to adopt an emotion or a mindset based on somebody else's suggestion to you, especially if it never occurred to you before. , It is, uh, helpless place to be defeating place to be. Disempowering,  📍 📍

, This is a matter of principle  is another one.   📍 📍 I'll never understand how people can justify that.   📍 📍 If you break the rules, you should face the consequences.   📍 📍 Letting this slide would be enabling bad behavior.   📍 📍 I'm not here to judge, but someone has to call this out.  Okay. Those are all the phrases that might exacerbate or like compound your feelings of black, white, right, wrong.

They carry a tone of indignation, moral superiority, and emotional charge, sometimes escalating to blaming, shaming, public outing of perceived wrongdoers. they may be used instinctively as self-talk in private conversations or in during social and legal conflicts, unwittingly modeling rigidity for children or other family members.

What I'm saying is, is that you may be using that as a way to, stabilize your stance. Is that the right way to say that? Yeah. anger in your stance and your moral rightness. Righteousness, . To yourself. Like, well, somebody has to do this. It's a way to like fuel your, if I'm gonna be frank about it, bad behavior or bad attitudes that are not fueling you where you wanna go, creating your experience to be more negative.

Okay? So recognizing any of these patterns, like , that kind of talk in your own self, rather than, and I should have said this in the beginning, listen, you guys, if you have spent the whole episode thinking about this in terms of that's what they do and like other focus out the outgroup focused, then I, it would be really helpful for you to go back and listen to this , let go of the temptation or the urge to wanna only focus on how other people are violating this.

And maybe then now focus on how you might be doing this in your own life.  And the reason I say that is so that you can upgrade your experience of even this, if we wanna call it negative or positive, right? Wrong, bad, negative experience of alienation. Okay? So if you want to free yourself from these, this rigid sort of, um, black, white, right, wrong,

alienated, accepted sort of view points that you might have,  and I feel like it would've been inevitable for you not to. Gathered some of these and used some of these in your daily life,  then it would be really helpful to see how all of this applies to you, not to other people, okay? Because if you're doing it towards other people, it's just gonna solidify that and it's gonna set you further apart. 

Okay? Um, examples, I'm gonna give you examples of gentler sort of phrasing.   📍 📍 This is one way to see it. There might be other ways.   📍 📍 I notice I feel strongly about this. What might another perspective be?  . This is what you do. This is how I correct, if you will, my thinking when I feel indignant or like in this place of they're wrong, they're suck.

Which by the way, I was just in that place. I was like last week where I was like so mad. So last week I had another technical problem with, there was my script, what I used, to edit the show it out of nowhere  y'all. I was throwing stuff.  I finished editing the episode and somehow I hit a button where it went , it was on the fritz,

and it created over, I stopped counting at 400 scene cuts in my, all of my script. I had to go back and delete because in each of those 400, over 400 scene cuts was extra media put in it, extra titling and like stuff that I had to pull off so that you guys didn't think that I had gone crazy. 'cause it was like stuff all over the screen.

If you were watching it, it was a hot mess. Right? And I was in such a bad mood. I mean, it, it cost me hours. Upon hours. I was almost in tears. I was so angry. And it wasn't a person that did this. It was their AI that was on the fritz and just decided to start doing what I wanted. Right. It shut everything down and I couldn't go back and just x out of it or, or go back to a previous version because nothing was even uploading.

Anyway, it was a big mess. Anyway, I, after that, because of that, that set a tone for me, of me felt feeling like I had been done wrong by ai. And that bled out into all the experiences I had later that evening and like the next day even where I felt wronged and everybody else was the enemy. You know what I'm saying?

So trust me, I mean, I, I'm here with you, I get it too. You know? I was assuming the worst about everybody else and that I was this on an island as the victim, you know, for like, maybe, I don't know, about 24 hours. But it was, it was a good while. And I noticed, and then finally I noticed my dialogue and I was like, oh my gosh, there are so many different ways to think about this.

'cause I was like, this is the only way to think about it. I said this out loud to myself in the car while I was driving. And then I was like, I laughed because I was like, this is not the only way to think about it. What are you talking about? That's what your ego wants you to believe in the moments, you know, because it feels so charged and good in a fucked up way, you know, to be right,

being right feels like, Ooh, thank God. See, I'm the one that was right. You know, may not say that out loud, but that's like the idea. It's like, ugh. You're standing up on your pedestal, you know? It feels redeeming.  And for us as alienated parents, that's one thing that we all like crave, is some redemption.

You know, we have been singled out for so long, at least this time. Can we do it in the right, in the quote unquote right way.  Right. Can we be the model to look after, to be to, for them to model after, you know what I'm saying so it makes sense why we all sort of get there, but it just doesn't in the long run, choosing anger. Even anger, like, you know how earlier I was talking about, you know, from shame or whatever, that those are really low frequency. Emotions. Anger is higher than fear and, shame, but not by much.

It's still, anger is not nearly as high of a frequency as let's say, well, of course joy or like even curiosity or fascination or understanding or compassion, all of those are way higher frequency than anger and what have you. So anger is not how we wanna like model to, like, that's where we need to go.

From there, we can decide to immediately switch into curiosity and what have you. And these are the phrases that would get you there, hopefully get you there. And this is how I, I started that whole thing by saying, this is how I pull myself out of being in that only minded, like right, wrong way. ?  📍 📍

That approach makes sense from your point of view.  And you can say that depending on the tone that you put on that, that can feel good, true, and right.  Recognizing individuality and also recognizing that there is more than just your way to think about something. Okay. So that approach does make sense from your point of view.

Absolutely. It does. I,   📍 📍 I can see how you would get there.  Not in a condescending way, and so for you, you, the, way that you would state that is   📍 📍 how does this approach make sense from their point of view?  How could I see it from there? You know? All right.   📍 📍 I'm curious how this feels for everyone involved  is another way to, depending on what you're using,   📍 📍 how can we find common ground on this  conversationally, right?

Um,   📍 📍 my experience is different, but I respect your view.   📍 📍 this is a complicated situation. There isn't always one clear answer.  These are ways that conversationally, that you can say something outwardly, but like for me, like I was just saying, I pose these as questions for my brain to go and find, more broad perspective and like, better feeling like curiosity invoking responses, another way to say something, if you're in a conversation,   📍 📍 I'd like to understand your reasoning behind that choice  and really wanna understand it. Like, can you help me understand what's going on here?   📍 📍 maybe there are several ways to approach this, right? What are those ways?  What are two of those ways?

Ask yourself, if you're at doing this right, what are those ways? Um,   📍 📍 let's focus on what works for us rather than what's perfect or ideal. ?  📍 📍 It's okay if we see things differently or if we see this differently.   📍 📍 I wanna consider what's most helpful right now, not just what's correct.   📍 📍 I wonder how this decision will impact everyone in the long run.  📍 📍

perhaps we can hold space for both options and see what fits best after.  Let's get reconvene in a month and see which works best for the both of us. You know, the, all of those alternatives in conversation emphasize compassion, humility, and flexibility, right? Helping to shift conversations away from moral polarization and toward collaboration and self-reflection.

Uh, when I wrote these phrases too, I was thinking about like how you could respond to somebody, even on social media or, , in email, text as well too, as opposed to some knee jerk reaction of that's fucked up, or whatever you might say on the inside, you know? Alright. So now lastly, lastly, I want to almost lastly, I'm gonna do this and then I'll summarize.

I wanna give you some role play prompts if you are speaking with your child or others, like practical prompts. Okay? So let's say your child says, I don't wanna visit this weekend, right? Instead of being like, no, you need to do what's right, or you need whatever your knee jerk reaction is, you could say something like, practice this at home and make it yours.  📍 📍

It sounds like you have strong feelings about that. Can you help me understand what's coming up for you?  That's when your teen says, I don't, I I'm not coming this weekend. I don't want, can you help me understand what's coming up for you?   📍 📍 Recognizing their emotion that they're probably having, especially if they're, uh, insistent on not coming.

You're recognizing them and not making it about the rules or some right or wrong thing to do or about some war. And then you're asking for clarification so that you can understand them.  Every kid wants to feel understood. Every person wants to feel understood,   the next, situation that I came up with is a co-parent criticizes your parenting style.

they say something depends on where you're at with them, but like you're letting them stay up too late, and that's just wrong. You can practice saying something like, and it doesn't matter how they respond, it's more about you responding in a way, coming up with, with response for you that feels good for you and doesn't perpetuate or instigate polarity fight, right?

, Going at each other. ,  📍 📍 I hear your concerns. I'm open to hearing your perspective, even if we don't agree.  Okay? Or   📍 📍 I hear that you're worried. I'd like to discuss what works best for our child together  as opposed to allowing, like they're gonna do what they want, but Settling for their, assessment of you.

? Their judgment of you, your child blames you for the family conflict. It's all your fault that we don't get along. Listen, there are so many clients or people, parents that I've spoken with, that the, the reason the alienation happened is either because they cheated, like the alienated parent had gone, had an extramarital affair, and then because of that, that the other, the alienating parent is now using that as all the fuel.

And the child then adopts that and says, you are the reason why. You're the reason why you broke our family up. Right? I, I cannot tell you how many times that that story is the motivation for all of the alienation. I still think that cheating, not cheating, that alienation was probably in this parent's, like they were gonna probably respond that way with anything sort of opposed to them, but they just wanna, just, as we're talking about here, they wanna label somebody as the wrong person, right?

And it's easier for the alienating parent, and it's great to have compassion for them here too, because you know that you've done this. With them and with other people, then that's exactly what they're doing, is they're making you the bad guy, of course, moving their child up into the parent role, right?

And they're now partners with them in, in that way, right? They've got entered the loyalty conflict and it's all against you. And so they, your kid says, it's all your fault, but we don't all get along, right? This is, you're, you're doing, you did this, you should have done it differently. And you can say,   📍 📍 , I'm sorry that this feels so hard for you. Let's talk about what feels difficult for you or what's been difficult.   📍 📍 I wanna listen and understand to how you are experiencing everything,  right? But so, because when they say comments to you like, it's all your fault, you shouldn't have done what you did back then, boom.

They wanna just end it there. And most of the time, well, depending on the parent, they either parents that are being accused of this by their children, they either wanna defend their actions, but, but, but, but, or they don't wanna continue on the fight. So they just take it and leave it and they silence them,  which is exactly what the kid wants because then there's no argument back.

But when you open right back up to them, even at their insult or their blame to you and say,  📍 📍 help me to understand what's been difficult specifically about this situation for you.  It then lowers the intensity. And it's now directing them to start using their own thoughts about why it's a problem for them.  📍 📍

And then if you can keep focusing on not their blame towards you, not the daggers or the, bombs, they're throwing your way, but instead ask them about their experience of that and what's been difficult specifically for them. Then you start opening up this bridge for conversation to happen. Even if it's not, doesn't seem productive in your mind, it's now you've opened it up.

It's you've got more avenues to work from.  You know what I'm saying? Okay. Mm. Next scenario is someone challenges your decision making, like, here you could do this for like if the other parent is challenging your decision making, like you got them baptized without telling me, blah, blah, blah.

Something like that, you know, or whatever it is. You could say,   📍 📍 there are many ways to approach this. What's most important to you right now about this topic?  What can we do from here?   📍 📍 What's most important? That I understand?  also to like, someone challenges your decision making, like outside of the, the, you know, your immediate family unit outside of the alienation.

Like, why are you just gonna let them get away with that? And that's when you can say,  📍 📍 I'm trying to find what feels true and helpful for me as a parent.   📍 📍 I appreciate hearing different viewpoints, however, this is the one that I'm standing on right now. But tell me your thoughts about it.  Just acknowledging like if they're saying, oh, you're just gonna let them get away with this, that like, okay, we could go there to that, but I'm really trying to consider all things involved.

Okay, so the last little role play thingy I did or situation here is child, shares, liking something about the other parent. Like they're like, oh my gosh, we had so much fun. I think that a lot of you don't really have as much of an issue with this.

This usually, I don't wanna generalize, but like you may feel it on the inside, like, Ooh, why do they like that? Because that parent, that's where you gotta look at your thoughts because if they're saying that they really enjoy something about the other parent that you don't see in the other parent, you can have some internal conflict about it.

But you can also say to them like the, I think a great response here would be like,   📍 📍 I'm so glad that you can enjoy things with both of us. It's okay if we all bring different things, aspects into your life, different. value into your life,  So I'm glad you enjoy different things, with the both of us or with all of us.

What whoever's involved, right? It's okay. And I think I wanna encourage , that you include people in your life that bring different things to the table. Add value in all different ways is the best way, I think, found for me to go about that. That's great. They bring that to you. It also helps you,   📍 📍 it relieves you of your ego of this idea that you must be the one that supplies all good compared to the alienating parent who's supplying must be all bad if you're the one that's doing all good because you guys in your mind, you have to be much different from them.

'  cause you would never do those things. Right. But when you say they add value in a much different way than I do, then there's no competition. You know, there's no comparative analysis that you must go through in which way is the right way. They're just different. They bring different joy into their life than I could ever even try to bring.

And I can honestly, when I think about it that way, I can even look at the stepmom who is the one person that I've always had the hardest time, forgiving. I can even look at her in that light in a forgiving way because it is true. I mean, there is no arguing with that, that I'm sure that she's got because we are so different.

That she's gotta have, they can't all be bad qualities. There has to be some redeeming that doesn't sound right, but like some really amazing qualities that are attractive about stepmom that my daughter gets from her. Do you know what I'm saying? Even in,  and I know what we're talking about, abuse you guys.

So just know that like, I don't mean to like lighten their offenses, if you will, or make light of them,  you know, but unless you're going to court or you have a plan of action, letting that like the, the negativity drag you down is doing just that. It's not gonna bring you anywhere that you wanna go.

You'll be then just be all focused on all the wrong that they're doing and how they're doing it and all the things, and it keeps you at a standstill in your life. So then you don't feel good. You, your experience of it isn't good and you perpetuate that experience by the way that you're thinking, the gaps that you're feeling and in your head about what must be happening over there.

And you're also Perpetuating it in your own life. Because when you are feeling the ill feelings about what they are doing,  you are the one that's feeling 'em, not them,  you know? So I guess my whole point of this whole episode is that when we come at any situation, any differences of opinion, knowing that somebody else.

Feels differently about something than you do, I think just instead of immediately wanting to condemn blame point fingers and chastise,  which is so difficult because you felt like it's been done to you. So you wanna do that back to redeem yourself.  But when you do that, because of what I explained earlier about like the neuroscience of it and also the psychology of it, it works in the very, very, very short term like moments.

But in the long term, it,, it causes all this upset, upheaval inside of you. So how can you develop compassion is by asking questions, like , in the prompts that I just outlined for you there. How can you, start to open up your mind and just remind yourself on the daily that just because I see it one way doesn't mean that that's the only way people wanna talk about and especially coming from our kinds of backgrounds, generally speaking, we wanna label the right and the wrong, and there's a right way and there's a wrong way.

There is like, rape is wrong. And I, you, we could go into all these things about like, there is a moral code and things, people should do this right and the wrong, but you just, there's so much context. Human trafficking and all these, atrocities of the world, you know, they will be there because that is just the human experience.

. But the more that we appoint ourselves as the, the judgers of the world or the police of the world, and that we need to call everything out, notice what a fucking burden it is on you. You know? Hmm. When you can come from a place of compassion, curiosity, fascination, you notice that you get so much more done and more productivity in your conversations, even with the quote unquote enemy or villain in your life, when you can come to some sort of even ground,  even if that's only in your mind for seeing it, how they see it, you will alleviate so many of your own symptoms and be able to see clearly for the whole picture and come up with, um, like a protocol and actions that you can take to directly affect change or promote change related to whatever you're upset about. 

You know what I'm saying? So you're not gonna really, I'm not saying that anger's bad. I think anger can be really good, a great motivator to start. Creating change, disrupt, the current cycles that you could see that maybe aren't good. Hello alienation, right? But in order to disrupt in an effective, lasting way, you have to have clarity.

And clarity comes when you pull the emotionality out of it and start seeing the full all different kinds of angles and situations and understanding what would've created, , a person who was inclined to alienate and, like cast you out, you know? So anyway, that's what I have for you. just maybe the questions that I think I wanted to leave you with is,   📍 📍 what would change for you and your, family dynamic if you embraced curiosity and compassion instead of policing. The morality of the situation   📍 📍 or policing the bad behavior on the quote unquote other side. What would change for you in your daily life, in your ability to connect in your productivity? 

How much time do you spend daily? This is an uncomfortable, question to sit with and find the response to, but it can really help you to, to put things into perspective is   📍 📍 how much time do you spend on a daily basis, policing the world, policing your situation, considering the injustices done, hours wise, how long, how, how many hours per day?

How many hours per week? And then compute that into months and maybe even a year.   📍 📍 And see the impact , on your ability to connect in your life as a result of those hours spent.  Because  not only do you sit and ruminate likely, uh, about the injustices being done and how what they're doing is wrong and what you're doing clearly is right.

You may not always define it that way, but what they're doing is wrong and how are they getting away with it sort of thing. Not only do you feel that negativity the whole time that you're thinking about it in that sense, but then it eats into all that time that you could be proactively doing, like advocating for yourself and doing things that you really wanna do for yourself and also for your child, and talking and having

like making productive leeway with the situation because you're too busy stuck in that. And the negativity,  the negativity is so easy to go back to and it feels it's addictive. Like I said, outrage is drama. And drama is addictive because of what drama creates. Neurochemically in the brain. That was redundant.

Neurochemically, your brain immediately excretes endorphins. The second that we go to the drama, And then when we react to that drama, it creates the reward for us. We receive the dopamine and we wanna repeat that. Our brain reward system files that away is a good, response, a good action.

And we continue to do that. And that itself becomes this whole cycle of addiction. You know? So that's what I have for you. That was a really long episode. That was talked for like two hours. I gotta go and edit that. So, I'll see you guys next week. Bye.