In this episode of The Beyond The High Road Podcast, Shelby Milford discusses the profound impact of trauma and grief on personal responses and decisions. She highlights a listener review, thanks Alexandra Unshakable for her feedback, and encourages listeners to leave reviews. Shelby shares personal stories and insights into how unprocessed trauma and grief manifest in daily life, affecting decisions, especially in parenting. She uses a comparison from Grey’s Anatomy to illustrate how trauma, irrespective of its source, can lead to similar responses in different people. Shelby emphasizes the importance of self-compassion and understanding one’s responses to past trauma, recognizing that these reactions are often driven by the nervous system’s need for safety and security. She provides examples from her own life, describing her struggles and the lingering effects of grief, and offers advice on shifting perspectives to alleviate self-blame and shame. Shelby concludes by urging listeners to leave reviews on Apple Podcasts to support other parents in similar situations.

Episode Transcript 

 You are listening to The Beyond The High Road Podcast with Shelby Milford, episode number 137. Stay tuned.

 Hey guys, how are we doing today? So today I wanna talk about, I haven't, formally titled it yet, but it's going to be about how trauma and grief change you or Change the way that you operate, and maybe like change your responses. And compassion, developing compassion for your regrets and shame around those responses. Um, I'll figure out a catchier title, but for now that's what it is. Um. So lately I've been getting these little like slideshow, flashbacks of moments from, you know, back when I still had my daughter.

. It's been really interesting lately I've been becoming very aware of connections, parallels. And relating what I'm currently thinking about in current life or whatever's going, like the thought process to how my brain then shows me my daughter, right back when she was still living in my house, you know, in bed and while we were reading just little moments here and there and how maybe some unprocessed trauma, grief still lingering it's almost like the universe, God, is like,  here you go. Let me just show you something. Do you see why you're making these decisions or why this has affected you so much? 

It's just, I've been getting, I guess, a lot of clarity, but it's been in the form of these little flashbacks. You know, I think with, with you guys, I talk quite a bit about. You did the best you could with the information that you had at the time, and now it's about becoming aware of that and then directing your steps accordingly given the new information that you have. Right? I mean, that's basically what all the episodes are about anyway, is 

finding all the power that you have and being able to utilize it.

And today and giving yourself grace for the power that you didn't step into back then. And of course, the grief that you feel around your kiddos and being able to create a new life for yourself while still allowing for the grief that you might be experiencing. during Reading the New Life for yourself, you know, and I've talked with you too, about the fact that I found a lot of understanding and compassion for the version of me that made decisions, ?

That today I would make differently. ,  However, there was a part of me.

That was still looking back on those decisions and sort of putting my hands in my head, you know, like, Ugh, there's still been this undertone of shame around some of the memories that I hold and the, the regrets, if you will, that I had  like.

Yeah, I couldn't help the events that happened when I was a kid, but the way that I specifically reacted and dealt with or didn't deal with it, when it came out sideways, that was my fault, and I should be blamed for that, or I should be shamed for that. Like, I, I responded wrong, 

Let me be more specific. I'm gonna pick a familiar theme to explain what I mean. Y'all have heard me talk about the abusive relationship I got into after my daughter's father,

right?

that relationship and my choice to get into it and stay in it, and all of the little micro choices I made along the way was the source of a lot of friction when it came to my custody situation, and more importantly, the quality of time that I gave to my daughter during it due to my, State of duress, there always seemed to be alarms going off in my body throughout much of the time that I was with him, and I know that, how I carried myself in that state of emergency throughout each and every one of my days..

Also probably rubbed off on my daughter, whether I wanted to believe it back then or not,  because I was always, that I remember it is I was very conscientious about what I showed to her, right, and how I spoke.

With her to her, I was careful, you know, to not say things that would stress her out. However, in hindsight, I know I had to have been operating on a low hung of 9 1 1. And I know that that affected her. But anyway, so.

That relationship was a source of a lot of tension when it came to my daughter, our relationship in the custody situation as a whole. The story that I had in the beginning, you know, like Till maybe a year after we broke up, was a very victim centered narrative. I would've told you he took advantage of me when I was vulnerable, that he was fraud, that he was selfish, that he was abusive, aggressive, Irresponsible  the Focus was all on how he destroyed me.

Of course that story didn't feel good, but I didn't think that there was an option there. Like I thought that this is just a fact. These are facts. He destroyed me. Everybody in the world would think this way, and I thought that I was stuck with that.  And over time when I started doing this work, , I purposely started to evolve the story.

I realized that there was a slightly different perspective that I could take. So from that first story, I'm sure there were lots of little renditions of it. But the next

shift I guess I went to was. Internalizing it and making it about me that I was to blame and God, what was I thinking and how, why would I ever have stayed with him?

You know, I was at, at the point where I was far enough out of the relationship where I started to get angry about stuff angry toward myself like. Why would I have stayed? Now I'm seeing all these signs and I'm adding things up.  You know how you do. And when you get out of a relationship and then you really start to see all the ways that things were messed up, you know? 

So I shifted my narrative to, oh my gosh, it was me. I should have seen this. I, how could I be so stupid? How could I be so, weak minded, I was so hell bent on not making him the hero or the villain of my story, , I was angry and so I was like, he doesn't have control over me anymore. I need to take control.

So my story, It was all about. My brokenness and my desperation and my vulnerability, which in fact just actually almost victimized me more from a different aspect of it basically it was my fault that I chose him., If I would've had more self-respect, if I would've been less needy, if I would've had more support around me, if I would've been seen by others, seen by the right people, loved by the right people, I don't know.

It was just sort of, um, I. Constructs that I had in my mind. I, I don't know what my actual wording was, but there was something faulty within me that attracted him to me, that kept him coming back. I was to blame, the way that I dealt with my trauma and the way that it came out in me was broken, that I could have and should have handled it differently,  and somebody else in my position probably would have. other people have had trauma and they didn't fuck up like I did. They didn't continue to screw their life up and waste all this time. So there's something in me  now. At some point, I shifted from that story to what I share with you guys today. Right? But still within that story, there was an element of shame until this week.

So if you tell yourself that it's the way that you specifically handled your trauma like that, if you compare yourself out to others and think that they would've handled their situations better than how you handled them, then. I wanna share with you what helps me to lock in a new narrative this week. I'm hoping it'll help you too. 

One of the more, most prominent flashbacks that I get. most common ones, or recurring flashbacks I get is when I got engaged to the Brian Guy I let Scarlet spend the night at her best friend at the Times House.

the next morning. I came and picked Scarlet up I'll never forget it. We were driving in my car Brian was in the driver's seat and I was in the passenger seat and my daughter was behind him, right?

So I could see her I let her know that we were engaged and she broke down in tears she said,  mama, no.  I couldn't understand why I did. Now I can look back and I know that I sensed it, but I also I didn't want to hear it because I also knew that she had talked about really wanting a family, and that's what I was trying to build for her, in, my own way.

he wasn't the right one to invest the time and the. Everything into the trust but at the time I was tunnel vision, She said she wants family. I need to feel safe and secure and protected and like that. I have somebody on my team. And so I went and chose this person that was all the opposite of what I wanted and the opposite of what my daughter needed.

But I, I couldn't see that back then.

And so.

She was in tears? and I can picture her now, like, looking back at her when she said, mama, no. Now I understand that though, kids can't, you know, they don't fully understand the complexities of a relationship. What I know that they do recognize is what feels good and what feels calming. 

Now that I'm saying this, my daughter used to always, when she was little, itty bitty, like three, four years before when I got engaged.

 I remember saying to her one day while I was giving her a bath, I said. Baby, why don't you wanna go over to her dad's house? It's so much fun over there. I was trying to like get her excited about going over there because she was going through a phase where she didn't really like a lot of men and she would go into hysterics whenever her dad showed up to pick her up. And so I was trying to get her on the team of this is gonna be fun to go over to dad's  I was like, why don't you ever wanna go over there? It's gonna be so much fun and you could go swimming and you can, play with.

the next door neighbor, friend and whatever I thought that they were gonna be doing over the weekend, and she said,  mommy, I don't wanna go. I don't wanna go. It's not beautiful over there.  I think I've told you guys this story before. And I was like, what? She said, beautiful. And I said, what are you talking about, babe Scarlet is beautiful.

And what I took it as he and I had built that house, and I was the one that chose everything from top to bottom, when she said it wasn't beautiful over there, I was like, what are you talking about, honey? I built that house. The house is gorgeous. so I don't understand. And she was like, no, mama, it's not beautiful. And it took so long, for me to realize that what she was saying is that  she didn't feel beautiful over there. Like the house didn't feel beautiful, it didn't feel comfortable for her, children.

No, when things aren't. they don't know the complexities. They don't understand relationships and what it means for people to get married and to start a family. You know what I'm saying? But what they know is how they feel.  

So fast forward again, back to when we were all in the car and I had just told her that we were engaged.  

She was not. It was like, no, this isn't right to me, afterwards, I feel like she was so wise beyond her years.

It's like she knew the fear in her eyes. When I picture her. It's like she knew that there was bad to come so, which makes me sad so when I think about that memory of her, and this is one that comes up quite a bit, I've held a lot of shame around my, like I felt for her in the moment, right?

I was like, oh honey, why? But I was almost, it was like I, I was in such denial that I didn't wanna know why, because I was, had worked so hard to get us here. So I was like, I'm gonna make it good. I'm gonna make everything fine. You'll see, not just to her, but to my own self, you know? So there has been a lot of shame and guilt and regret around decisions like that.

There were many, many, many of them, little, little ones. This was a bigger decision, but many little decisions that I look back now and see the effect that it might still to this day have on her and I can't help but wonder what might have been, you know. then the other day I was watching you guys, I never ever watched one episode of this show and there's 21 seasons out there until recently when I started it, and now I'm on season six of Graz Anatomy.  you guys know how I like to take something that doesn't apply a non reactivating situation and use that as a comparison or an example because it helps to lighten things up and actually see that our situation is traumatic, dramatic, crazy as each of our situations seems.

It's still not, so far fetched that it's not comparable to something else in regular life, you know? But also it's just easier to see how to apply concepts to the simple stuff.  So anyway, I started, um, watching Grey's Anatomy and I just now hit season seven.

I a few episodes into it, but. in season six, Sandra O's character, her name is Christina, who. It's gonna make sense in a minute, but just to give you some insight into her character.

If you've never watched the show before, it doesn't matter if you've watched it or not, you guys. I just want to give you where I'm coming from. So the summary of this will make sense in the end, but Christina's character, tander O's character. Was portrayed for the six seasons thus far to be extremely like the poster child of Independence, women's independence.

Not feeble-minded or, mousey at all. She was radically invested. In her internship, And in becoming a cardiac surgeon. Prided herself on being purpose-driven and strong-willed not needing a man to define her or help her in any way. She starts dating this guy who's recently been discharged from the armed forces, he'd recently been at war and was clearly suffering with PTSD. from the get, from the second that he came on the show, I've just not been a fan of him, he was kind of selfish and. Whatever, I just don't like him. he to me was taking away from Christina's drive, from her independence from the beginning. And he didn't seem to care that he was doing that.

That's just my perspective.  And I know that this is all imaginary, you guys, it's just fiction. But, the way that her trauma was written was to me very real. It spoke to me on a per really personal deep level. 

So, at the end of season six. There's these two, Feel like they were fucking marathon episodes they took to me so long because they, there were two grueling episodes about this shooter who was in the hospital and

a lot of people got killed shot. the shooter was a disgruntled man looking for Derek. This one, doctor Derek had been shot and Christina was performing his surgery when the shooter came back in and held the gun to Christina.

just was. Hard, hard to watch. And it just felt like it went on forever. In fact, I had to fast forward through a lot of, uh, those two episodes 'cause they were, it was uncomfortable.

That's how season six ends. Season seven, episode one starts. And the previously very independent, very driven cutthroat about getting into all the best surgeries, was you see her sitting on the sidelines. With a bride's magazine thumbing through and deciding on flowers and happy to do it. She had no interest in being a part of any surgeries after she'd been held at gunpoint while she was performing surgery, open heart surgery on the guy that the shooter was trying to kill, So a complete 180 for her role now. She was softer, more meek. Really, honestly, she was living in survival mode, emergency mode. anyway, they show her in her apartment and she's sitting on the couch. This is where it gets personal, personal for me, and she's curled up in a blanket in a dark apartment.

And Owen, the guy that I don't like, her boyfriend comes to the door, but she's gotta let him in because she's got it bolted, shot like with the chain, with all the things. So she lets him in and immediately, like she's clearly upset, immediately starts going at him about why he was late. It was very evident that she was coming from trauma, that it would, his lateness wasn't really the problem, but that she needed predictability at the time, she lets him in, shuts the door, and it's like she did such an amazing job in these scenes. I mean, not all of 'em, but she really did an amazing job because she made me believe her. 

she couldn't get from the door back to the sofa fast enough. she needed to get back to that sofa because that was the only place that she felt safe. 

Y'all have heard me, if you've been listening to any of the episodes, that was me for a couple years where I could not, I didn't know it when I was in it. I could not , pull myself out of that extended freeze. Right? I, I couldn't get off my couch So anyway, he comes and sits down next to her and she begins to plead with him to not leave her alone again.

Please don't leave me alone. Please don't leave me alone. And he, of course, I'm like rolling my eyes at him. He pulls out a ring. And proposes to her,  and she doesn't say yes. She's not shocked in disbelief and glee. the look on her face. She is so relieved. She thanks him profusely. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. For not leaving me alone. Like she needed him to go from like that. Independent her to this needy woman who didn't care about anything she once cared about. And all she cared about was, was having a man comfort hold her create security for her.

That was it.  She went from, she once used to, judge the simplicity of other girls, now That's all she craved. And it was so relatable to me here's what I think spoke to me about that was that  her trauma was the shooter in a hospital, That was no fault of her own. It was just something that happened in the community, in her environment,

it wasn't something that happened to her from childhood. It wasn't something that she caused by picking the wrong guy or the wrong whatever, you know? It was something that just happened out in the world that any of us could have had happen to us. Right. And she still responded in the same, almost exact same ways that I did, and maybe many of y'all do. 

And I was always sort of, even though I'd had compassion and understanding, and I really understood that I was only doing the best that I could with the information that I had, there was still this, like I was saying, the beginning, this undertone of shame. Like, yeah, but other people wouldn't have made the mistakes that I did.

I made these mistakes coming from all of my specific trauma because of what happened to me and then what I did with it. Like I was still faulting myself and for whatever reason, seeing the scene with her where this is a trauma that just happened, like as if you saw a car wreck in front of you,

it's a,  it's a nervous system thing. Your nervous system, our nervous systems don't, can't differentiate between something that's life and death and something that feels like life and death in a relationship area of your life or what, whatever it's, you know, it, it doesn't know. It just knows that things don't feel right and it acts in almost in the same way every time.

In survival mode, what do we do? We cover up, we look for comfort. We look for predictability. security, safety, we go back to our primal needs,  And so I know that like all the times and I'm, that's why I shared with you the stories just a little bit ago about making the choices I did when it came to the engagement and even the way that I talked, Scarlet out of.

Being upset, you know, at two years old about going over to her dad's. Now, I wouldn't have encouraged the other way, but at least I would've heard her out and helped her to take ownership of her own emotions. And it's not bad or wrong that she was feeling, you know, not happy about going over to dad's, but we could have just together explored what was going on for her instead of shutting her down.

But I did that. Because in my mind, no, no, no. We all need to be happy so that something doesn't happen. I was trying to avoid, a bigger calamity later on regarding her father in custody situation. So. I hope I'm explaining this right. I, I guess what I'm saying is, is that it's not.

Seeing such a, gosh, when I say this, I don't mean to say generic trauma that she had, but something that could have happened to anybody. A chance situation, affect this fictional character, but still she responded doing the same things and not being able to function. My point is, trauma affects us all. I mean, maybe not the same, same, but our nervous system responds in the same ways. What it looks for is our basic needs to be met. That comes first.  And if our basic needs can't be met in the , ideal way, then it'll make due.,

 So It's not just with my kind of trauma or your kind of trauma, that bad decisions are made that regretful choices happen, It's not because of the way that you in particular, dealt with your trauma. You dealt with it poorly or you didn't compose yourself or . Whatever you're blaming yourself for, it's not only specific to you when a threat comes on, we crave what is comforting, what is nurturing, what we feel at the time. And if we don't have any of those things around,  we make even the unsafe safe for us.  We're not always thinking with our right brain, you know, with our higher thinking in those moments, especially coming out of some traumatic event or in the middle of, uh, calamity catastrophe, Or also during grief. Still, a lot of you could be operating a lot of your body, your, whole system could be operating in survival mode.

And from there we will eliminate the unnecessary things and find comfort in

Shelter in whatever we will make due.  Sometimes that making do is what causes us to regret later.  Then it reminded me of how grief and trauma will cause us to do some crazy ass shit. Right? To feel closer to our loved ones. A lot of times, like with grief. So I re recently, actually not so recently, it was probably over a year ago, there was a movie or a series, I think it was, uh, maybe on Apple TV or something, um, where this husband widower actually had found his late wive's clothing, like a sweater of hers and her purse.

And he put her sweater on and even put her lipstick on grieving, And he did it clearly so that he could feel close to her so he could smell her and just be with her again, it's was an awkward scene. I got it though too at the same time. It's like, oh yeah, no, I completely understand. Grief causes us to do some crazy stuff sometimes. It's so primal the way that I think grief has moved through me. I, I just remember, like the most recent grief, it's not about my daughter. This one isn't before my pig passed.

The two days beforehand. She couldn't get out of bed. And it was really sad and it was, talk about trauma. That was really, really tough time for me. 'cause Nita, I got, if you've only been recently listening, I got Nita, right when my daughter left as like this way to purpose me.

Right? So I need to kind of. Never replaced my daughter, obviously, but she replaced where my attention went, you know? And so I, I was, I definitely transferred a lot onto a lot of my pain onto Nita and I re refocused, repurposed myself, you know. But anyway, the couple days before she died, she, um, she couldn't get outta bed and so naturally she had to go potty somewhere and she just.

Peed on her blankets, you know? And, I still still have that blanket unwashed out in my garage, folded up neatly and I cannot bring myself to throw it away.  Why? Because it has her DNA on it. And I know that that's like the closest thing to her because it came from her body. 

Disgusting. Right. To think about that. I have this blanket that's covered in my, my late pig's pee, but I don't, I didn't care. I still don't, I, I cannot bring myself to throw it in the trash or to wash it. I can't, I just can't do it. You know? It's grief. I have a pill bottle up there and also a jar of coconut oil that I will not even touch because the last time I touched it is when she was here.

Her food too. Her last bit of, um, pig feet is still in a bag in a, in a container in my pantry.  I can't, I can't bring myself to throw it away, weird how grief works sometimes.  I did the same thing with my daughter. You know, a lot of my grief was transferred to Nita, and I channeled it to, giving her love so that I wouldn't feel right,  which only prolonged my ability to feel the emotions surrounding the grief that I had over my daughter, you know, and still hold around my daughter. 

, But she, my daughter had given me. One that's coming off the top of my mind right now is she had given me for Mother's Day. One year the last year that she was home, A little jar with messages inside she told me to open it I was having a bad day, inside were these little pieces of paper.

And she wrote on each one of the, I couldn't bring myself to open that jar. I mean, in fact, I kept it in a box so that it wasn't touched for years. Throughout all of the time that I was alone and grieving her and in tears and on my couch and all the things,  I could not open it because if I, if I opened it, it would contaminate the last pieces of paper that she touched.

it's just. Crazy and sad and beautiful at the same time. How grief affects us,  like each one of us, it's different, I have many, many little works like that, but grief, trauma, it does change us. It affects the way that we operate throughout our lives. How? The way that we interact with people, the little.

Idiosyncrasies we develop ,  and now I say that I want you to know too, that you have a hundred percent, you're in charge of that too. Like grief doesn't need to, if you don't want it to take over you and become your personality or trauma. Obviously the same with that too. These are things that I was okay with  quirks that I'm okay to this day.

About, maybe at some point I won't be okay with the pee blanket, my pig pee blanket. But up until now it's not hurting anybody. It's pulled it up neatly in my garage. It's weird. I can't believe I shared it with you, but it is the truth. It has my pig's DNA on it, and that's the closest thing I can get to her, you know, crazy.

But anyway,, I just hope that I was able to, to explain that in a way that takes the weight out of whatever you might be shaming yourself about as far as your past regrets, knowing that when we . Experience any sort of traumatic event, especially when it's something like your own child or children, something so close to you from you, you know, it makes sense that you would've made decisions not thinking fully through, not paying attention to very, maybe now you think back like key aspects making decisions for your comfort and your security over prioritizing that, over, uh, maybe advocating for your children in the best way possible. You only see it after the fact, but when you were in it, the, the choices that you made really were, at a.

Deep, deep level. Your body, your, your nervous system will take over you and it does shut down your higher thinking. So from somebody that is being threatened with their life all the way to decisions about your children's lives, you know? It's not because of your specific reactions to trauma.

I mean, yes, it is, but it's also, you have to remember that your body, your, your nervous system is running you at the time that you made those decisions. You know, it is biological. This is something that no matter who you are, the responses that you had at the time, um, always take responsibility, but it's also not your fault.

It makes sense. , I guess I thought that because like our situations, we know there's this stigma attached to being alienated from your child. For dads, it's all, they must be a deadbeat dad. You know, that was the old story, years ago. And for us moms though, they must have done something really fucked up to lose their kids.

Right. So we, whether we, notice it or not, we stigmatize ourselves sometimes. Like I must have been really fucked up to get to the point where I'm stuck here now, But I just, I hope that today I explained it or illustrated it in a way to help you to understand that at a biological level, you made the decisions. You did because your nervous system told you to do those things. that was what was safest. That was what was most secure. And whether we're talking about your children and your own past trauma, or you're talking about somebody that got held at gunpoint, the body's desire and need to return to normalcy, is the same.

That pull is so strong following trauma. So. If you were feeling shame about any, any of those decisions, um, I hope that helps. So, alright, you guys have a lovely, lovely week and hey, don't forget if you like and listen to the show on a regular basis, um, and you're getting something out of it. Please, please, please, please, I would love for you to write and review on Apple Podcasts because Apple seems to be the only one that you can write actual reviews on, and it's the one that most, like, that's where the traffic is gonna come from.

Even if you're not an Apple Podcast listener, just go to, um, apple Podcasts on the web. Right? And, um. You can write reviews in there. I would really, really love that. The more parents like you and I that are listening, the more relief that they're finding, the less alone that we all feel, you know. Um, so y'all have a good week.

Great week. Okay. Take care.

 Thanks so much for listening today. If you like what you're hearing and you'd like to hear more, please make. Sure to click subscribe wherever you're listening or watching. Also, for bite-sized clips and tips, be sure to find me on TikTok or Instagram. See you next week.

00:00 Introduction and Listener Review

01:27 Today's Topic: Trauma and Grief

02:00 Personal Flashbacks and Reflections

04:42 Understanding Past Decisions

06:34 Shifting Narratives and Self-Blame

13:48 Relating to Fictional Characters

24:09 Grief and Its Impact

32:17 Conclusion and Call to Action