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Title: Navigating Attachment Theory and Worry Around Your Child's Symptoms

 

In this week's episode of The Beyond The High Road Podcast, Shelby Milford dives deep into the complex and often heart-wrenching experience of parental alienation, especially concerning the anxiety and worry related to children's symptoms and behaviors. Shelby, a twice-certified life coach specializing in post-traumatic growth, explores the intersection of attachment theory and the lived experiences of parents dealing with alienation.

 

Understanding Attachment Theory in Alienation

 

Shelby's exploration into attachment theory provides a framework for understanding how children may express their trauma through physical symptoms and emotional distress. She shares personal anecdotes, including her own experiences with her daughter’s seizures and the complex emotions surrounding them, offering listeners a relatable context.

 

Notable Quotes

 

- "Our children may display physical symptoms of trauma, nausea, anxiety, panic attacks... as manifestations of trauma."

- "Research shows that children frequently display major distress when they feel safe enough, especially in the presence of a trusted caregiver."

 

Key Topics Discussed

 

1. The Spectrum of Attachment Responses:

   Shelby discusses how children often display symptoms when they feel safe, attributing these reactions to attachment needs conflicting with loyalty binds. Understanding this helps parents discern that their presence may actually provide the security their child needs to express pent-up emotions.

 

2. The Role of the Rejected Parent:

   Shelby reassures listeners that symptoms manifesting in the presence of the alienated parent do not indicate harm caused by them. Instead, it’s evidence of the critical role secure attachment plays in allowing children to process distress.

 

3. Emotional Regulation and Support:

   Shelby emphasizes the importance of parents managing their own emotional responses to provide a supportive environment. Drawing from her experiences, she suggests self-care strategies, maintaining positive communication, and avoiding negative talk about the other parent.

 

4. Documenting and Seeking Professional Support:

   Shelby advises parents to document interactions and patterns for both personal insight and potential legal proceedings. She also highlights the value of professional support for both the parent and child.

 

Practical Mind Management Tools

 

Shelby concludes with practical advice for alienated parents on coping strategies, whether their children are with them or not. She recommends balancing attention between acknowledging the situation and focusing on self-care, which in turn helps parents be more present for their children.

 

Summary

 

This episode of The Beyond The High Road Podcast is a heartfelt exploration of the challenges faced by alienated parents navigating the complexities of attachment and worry around their child's symptoms. Shelby Milford provides valuable insights and practical tools to help parents make sense of their experiences and support their children's emotional well-being. Through understanding and managing their own emotions, parents can maintain a strong, supportive presence in their children's lives.

 

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Episode Transcript

 You are listening to The Beyond The High Road Podcast with Shelby Milford, episode number 155.

  📍 📍 Welcome to Beyond the High Road, a podcast dedicated to healing your heart and life following the grief of alienation. I'm your host, Shelby Milford, a twice certified life coach specializing in post-traumatic growth. If you're experiencing the effects of alienation and you're ready to heal, then this show is my love letter to you.

Stay tuned.  Hey y'all, how are we doing today? First, I do have some announcements 'cause I gotta read a couple of reviews. I'm gonna do that first and then I'll give you an update on me.   By the way, those of you who are waiting for the requests that you've put in, so long as I've responded to you, just know that those are coming. I didn't forget about you.

They are coming. And actually one of them will be, I think next week I have to look at my, my log. I'm becoming very strict with the way that I structure my planning, I'm following things to a T lately and it's really, thank God keeping things more simple. But anyway, so just know so long as I responded to your email and I try to respond to 'em all.

The only reason I wouldn't have responded is 'cause it somehow got buried, or got thrown into a spam folder or something. I will be addressing those. But today's topic I haven't titled it yet. , Coming off of last week we're gonna be talking about attachment theory again, but in a different light, if you will.

We're touching on it anyway, , as it relates to your child's attachment, to you, with you, and the worry that you might be feeling as a result of them either experiencing, like you see them having symptoms, , physical or mental emotional symptoms that they didn't have before the alienation started or that are only occurring.

Under your watch or maybe they're, they are occurring elsewhere, but you're just not being notified, you know? I'm gonna get to more of that in a second. But just wanted to give a heads up so you know that you're in the right episode.

That's what it is. Worry, anxiety regarding your child's health due to symptoms or just observations that you've been having. You guys, I have had, I was going to read the reviews first, but I may as well. 'cause I'm already having a hard time getting my words out.

I had the worst night's sleep last night. So on the health side of things, if you've been listening for a while, then you may know my sort of struggle, with inflammation inside my body and seeing a rheumatologist and on that front, on this inflammation side of things, things are okay right now, at least this week, I'm feeling much better that way.

But they started me on this new steroid or on a steroid, , which I think is managing the inflammation, but. There's a couple things that have really been affected. One has been, I'm a little bit more direct, I guess they say the symptom of that is being edgy or irritable, I don't necessarily feel irritated, but I am definitely have noticed that I'm not sugarcoating anything.

So hopefully if you notice that I'm a little extra direct today, then that's why I may actually, now that I've just sort of called myself out, maybe I'll overcompensate. We'll see. But that's one of the things. And also the other thing is, last night I slept. Probably the worst. I've slept since, I don't know when it was awful sleep up and down and up and down, and it's been a nightmare.

So my, my brain today, like if I look at my sleep app, because you guys, I'm I am obsessed with getting the right amount of sleep and the right stages of sleep and all the things I have been for years ever since probably this whole situation went down and I started doing my own healing journey.  Like when I stopped drinking and stuff, that was really one thing that helped me to have proof that drinking was not helping my health as if I couldn't just, open up Google and do a quick search on how drinking you're feelings away is harmful to your body, whatever.

Um, I needed like stats on me and . Sleep is actually one of the best ways to, to get that proof. Even eating sugar and stuff like that. You'll notice that it all comes out in the wash and that washes your sleeping habits. Anyway, my sleep last night was atrocious.

My readiness score today was like a 0.1 or something like that, which is ridiculous. So there you have it. There's that.  This is all not even part of the episode, but that's okay. 'cause I think that there's, , value in this  there was like four times this morning where I was telling myself , I should just go back to bed. I could cancel the rest of my, reschedule my appointments. This is a good enough reason to go back to sleep and I'll just record the episode on the day of release tomorrow and I didn't because, because I mean I think that sometimes it's definitely the most loving thing.

Could be for you to not do things and not overachieve, , I think it's just a balance, right? Today for me it's one day out of many pretty good days of sleep. So, I think the most loving thing for Future Me tomorrow, me. You know, that's what I thought about.

What's my schedule like tomorrow? Do I wanna also add in the recording of it? And all my clients that I would reschedule. My point is, some days it's okay, you can still show up to all your events or at least the essential ones, and it'll save you. It can save you in the end. Where I used to probably make excuses for myself quite a bit, today I don't, and I always feel so much better because of it. Like I said, there are times where, and you know what those times are when taking a break could be the most loving thing.

But anyway, that's the Shelby update done. We have some new reviews. So now I know to look, at Pod rover is, a site I guess that gives me, like, updates on any of the happenings with the podcast and where I normally just go straight over to Apple Podcast. Reviews outside of the US don't get shown.

I forgot this and I ran into this another time. Don't get shown on the on Apple podcast, reviews unless you make a point of getting a notification that lets you know. Anyway, this review is out of the UK and it says healing the painful topic of PA is tackled with genuine compassion and insight.

Shelby's guidance has become invaluable in helping me understand the dynamics at play and find a path towards healing by Natty J 2, 4 7 of United Kingdom. So thank you Natty j so much for your review. I really appreciate it. , Now I'm gonna have it on my radar to check my, this part of my email to, to see anybody else's reviews from outta the country. If I miss yours, I will go back. I'm gonna make a point to go back and look through those, because I remember it happening like, I don't know, a couple years ago, I think, where somebody in Canada wrote a review and I didn't see it until like a year later.

So ,  if yours has gone unnoticed, , like, if I have not announced it here on the show, this is why, and I will, make that up and recognize you for your taking the time out to do that. So I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you Naty. Jay. Also

I wanted to read a couple of the comments that I got on, Spotify. This is from a couple weeks ago, says, this podcast is what has gotten me through the last few years. I struggle with , tremendous grief, pain, and anger for those who didn't help protect my daughter, I was angry with the lack of effort by the system, the enabling family members, and how easily people can be manipulated by narcissists.

Shelby's compassion, authenticity, and wisdom has helped me more than anyone. She has lifted me up and continues to fill my heart with hope when it feels empty. Thank you, Melissa, so much. That is, was a very thoughtful, , um, comment, review, really appreciate you taking the time, to write the reviews.

 

, There's another one here. I'm dealing with Texas and in blank. Now I don't need to go into all that, but I feel like we have so much in common. Thank you so much for your podcast. I'm five years in, only now doing better, but my son isn't, I'm so lost, but I'm proud of my strength.  Okay, so Stephanie.

Thank you and actually, I wanna say that this comment helped me to plan this episode. It got me thinking, 'cause I had a rough idea of what I wanted to be talking about. I've had that for a while. But then your, it was a simple, sort of a nudge to a topic there saying that you're doing better now but your son isn't.

It actually started a thought process inside of me that I'm gonna share with you guys today. So thank you for that, Stephanie.   📍 📍 📍 So the episode today my aim is I think threefold. I wanna help you guys to one, understand what might be happening with your kids and like what their health and their safety emotionally.

Two, I wanna help to clarify and support those of you who have been like silently questioning or blaming yourselves for the materialization of symptoms that otherwise seem random. And then three, I wanna of course offer you as I think I always do, offer you some practical mind management tools for how to cope when your children are with you, and then also while they're away. 

And if your children are older and they're not, they haven't been in your home for a long time, still, , provide some mind management tools , for you guys too. Okay. But I guess basically what I'm saying is, is that. I'm gonna tell you a story in just a second, but that I struggled for a long time with guilt.

And maybe some self blame for like looking back on and like during too. I remember not knowing what to make of certain symptoms that were coming up from my daughter. I had this, sort of debate going on in my head or this dissonance regarding knowing that I acted and really tried to be a grounding presence for my daughter, but then also seeing these symptoms happen with her.

I couldn't help but wonder if it was just me that this was happening to her with. Is, is this only happening at my house and why? Am I, I don't know that I ever really was like, am I the real problem? But yeah, kind of so I just wanna help to just maybe provide some clarification for y'all if you are noticing symptoms or just like worrisome behaviors, anything materializing that wasn't there before. I wanna help you with that today. Okay. I'm gonna tell you now, I'm gonna go into a story. I, I've got a couple of 'em, ,

 

So back when my daughter was, I believe, you know, years and like periods of time get all mixed together for me, but I believe it was she was in kindergarten or first grade. The first time this happened, it was me, my friend Tim, his daughter Sloan, and my daughter were having dinner.

Sloan , she was in high school. During this time, and my daughter idolized her, I mean, she thought she was like everything. . She loved her. And so Scarlet would get super hyper around her and giggly, you know, little girls. And this night she was doing it to the point where my radar was up because. It was almost like she was overstimulated, and overtired. But I went with it because she was having so much fun. It was fine, whatever. So, during dinner, I had made, I don't know what it was, pork chops. 

This was clearly before Nita, my pig,  and. Asparagus.  The asparagus is important or kind of key because of what my daughter makes of this story today. But later, so  I said, baby girl, just have a bite of your asparagus and you know how kids are.

Anyways, she went to go take a bite and I think just happened to be by coincidence,

She takes a bite of her asparagus and.

 

She started to have a seizure, like a full on seizure where she was shaking uncontrollably.

Her eyes went in the back of her head, and when I picked her up, her back was arched, like straight, very rigid. It was really scary for me. I know for sure. And then also I, I can vaguely remember the looks on Tim and Sloan's face. They were definitely, it was jarring , I mean, I'll never forget

it. The helplessness that I felt as her mom, not knowing what to do, , whether to call. Also, there was this other part of me that was. In the middle of this, of course I want to save my daughter, but I knew that by the time if I was to call 9 1 1, that. , Her Caesar would've already stopped,  tim had actually had some experience with it, and he said, just keep her awake, bring her to the bed, comfort her,

I had never had that happen. I don't know if any of you guys, have experience with that, but if you do, then you know how scary it is the first time you ever see somebody seizing,  especially when it's your own kid.

 I was. Of course in the moment, calm, cool, collected, but really freaking out on the inside, like, what is happening with my child? ,  After she finished and she relaxed, like the seizure, I don't know what the terms are for that, but

afterwards I was trying to make sure to keep her awake as per directed by.

My buddy Tim, all she wanted to do was, she just was from the bottom of the bed where we were sitting. She just wanted to crawl up to the pillows to go to sleep. And I remember sitting with her and reading to her and singing to her and watching Dancing with the Stars with her just to try to keep her awake, but she was exhausted afterwards.

And I guess that's a classic, , symptom, you know, of  what happens after seizures. For a long time afterwards, she , claimed that she was allergic to asparagus, and that's why she had the reaction that she did. I did not, at the time, I was freaking out.

Like during, in the middle of it, I was so fearful of what the other side would say. Right. What her father and stepmom would say, because at that point they were like really active and throwing the daggers and , you know, all the accusations were flying and everything was, my fault. And so I didn't, I was really fearful to.

Communicate what had happened with my daughter. Though at the same time, I was so curious whether it was happening and I felt it was really necessary to have like even more reason to have communication between the households. But that communication, like a,  constructive sort of communication was never possible.

Like no matter how hard I tried, that just wasn't. In the carts because of

 you guys know how that is, you know, so, I think that after that first time I did not out of fear, did not say anything to her dad. ,  But it didn't happen again until, her last day of first grade, and she and her best friend. And then of course.

Both of us moms went after school last day of school over to their, to Jen's  Boathouse lake house. . The girls had such an amazing day that day. We had so much fun watching them . I mean, I have photos that I'm picturing in my mind about that time. It was just a really fun day.

. And I remember her being like really giggly and like rosy cheeked and like with it and just having fun, . Glee first day of the summer, And then it turned really quick and her eyes became sun in and she was clearly exhausted out of, no, it was like boom, . Face went white.

 I know when the switch happens with her like that.

I was like really hyper attuned to that, you know? And I had just been telling Jen,  the other mom, Hey, I think we're gonna have to split soon. I see the look in her eye. And right then and there again, , she had another seizure. It was a smaller seizure than she had had. The first time or previously, but it's still, she was on the floor scared the shit out of Jen, the other mom and of course Ansley, , my daughter's friend and me.

So we called 9 1 1 and of course I followed the ambulance with my car and got her there. And at that time I know that I for sure I knew I needed to call her dad just to let him know once we were already through most of the care in the er, that's when I called him to let him know, Hey, this is what's going on.

. It was scary as shit. And , it puzzled me for a long time because one I was really concerned about, especially at her age. Has this happened before? Because I knew, I mean, normally I don't take this approach, especially today, to like underestimate or try to, anticipate , somebody's negative response.

I don't find it useful today. But in that, this situation, knowing the history and what have you, I was anticipating their negative response actually their lack of response is what ended up happening. They kind of brushed it off and then, , I never heard anything more about it.

, I don't know if she had them over at their house or if they just kept that information from me, you know, or if she truly never had one. But it was perplexing to me. I didn't understand why that these seemingly random two now events were happening with her. Of course I took her to in Austin, it was Dell Children's Hospital, for follow up and they did the, I don't know if it's EEG or whatever it is to test try to, make a seizure happen again and what have you.

 Nothing came of that, you know, they said she was fine and then that was pretty much the end of it. But it always stuck in my mind of course, but like I still to this day sort of wonder if anything more materialized after she was out outside of my care or if that was just these two random events.

And did those two random events, were they because of me, I don't think that anymore. And I haven't for a while. But for, there was this part of me, the shaming part of me blaming part of me that was like, well, if they're not happening over there, or they haven't happened at school. And I knew that that wasn't the case.

'cause I had asked the teachers, at least when she was young. And they're only happening with me. What does that mean? Does that mean that I am the cause of the stress? Right. This is, of course, like I said, I mean I, maybe I had the words alienation. No, not at that time. I didn't actually, I just knew that shit was crazy and there was a lot of stress that she was dealing with.

But why were the symptoms materializing at my house, you know? It was really scary. it just was kind of like this, unanswered question or source of shame and guilt, I guess, for me for a while. 

 

Then just a few years ago, I had already moved here to Florida and I was going back and forth to do those few visits before her dad shut that down in January. It may have been the last time that I went to Austin to see her. Her And I went to her and I and the supervisor actually went to go get our nails done.

It was one of the last things we were doing for that day. I think we were seeing each other on Saturday and Sunday. So we went and sat next to each other to get Mani Petty's and. She had now, what if I would've known? Of course I would've always given her , the better nail tech, you know?

And I would've taken the one that wasn't so good, but I didn't know. And so she had this nail tech that maybe was brand new and didn't know what they were doing. And if, I don't know if your kiddos, especially girls, Mine was, anyway, really particular. I think it was a way for her to control her environment from an early age.

Since the alienation began, since, you know, she was a toddler, she would get really upset when things weren't done the way that she needed them on herself, on her being right, like if her hair or her braid wasn't perfect or done really tight, or if her shoes weren't tied super tight. , It was just a way for her, I think, to exercise, , individuality or some agency

 it was something that she could control.

 there was just

Certain things that she needed, just so, and when she was with me, I really tried to honor those things for her ,  anyway, Back to the nail salon. I looked down at her nails and I knew that they weren't gonna be to her liking. I could just tell they were thick and they were square and she, my daughter wasn't saying anything. She was not saying boob, but I could see it on her face, the tension building up, look like she was gonna cry.

 And I kept looking at her knowing it was quiet in the nail salon. That supervisor was up in the front. We had a good, very good working relationship. But I still didn't wanna make a big deal out of it in front of the nail techs for her, right, for my daughter.

And I was like,  Hey mama. Do you wanna switch nail tags with me? I'll just take yours and you take mine. Not a big deal. No problem at all.  And I think that, the day that we went to go get her nails done, it was during winter break. Yes, it was, because that was the last time I saw her.

It was during winter break, so I wanted her to go back to school the next day. And have her nails done nicely. 'cause I knew that that's what she wanted,  she was like, no, no, it's fine. She was zipped up,  and I was like, mama, are you sure?

Because I don't mind switching.  And I might've said that three times in the most loving way, . I really just wanted to help me help you. How can I make this better for you? You know? And it was then that she just. Started bawling uncontrollably,

maybe not bawling, but tears just streaming down her face and I wanted to reach out and hug her. I wanted to do so much. I was just rubbing her back. I felt terrible for her in that moment, you know, because I knew it wasn't about the nails.  I mean, it was about the nails, but it wasn't about the nails. 

And I was wanted to do whatever I could to alleviate that. Situation for her, you know, and make it better. You know, as parents, that's the one thing that we always wanna do, right,  we don't want our kids to feel pain. And now in a regular situation,  if alienation wasn't happening, I probably goes without saying, this wouldn't have occurred.

To me, it would've been not a big deal. But because of what I knew, she had already been enduring.  It was, you know, and also it was our last day for the visit together and I really wanted it to be good for her, you know? Anyway, so she,  clammed up, even though she was in tears. She was like, no, just stop.

Just stop. She was very rigid and, and didn't wanna talk about it. Of course I felt like at a loss and let it go, and it was just uncomfortable from there on out. But, I knew I was gonna hear about it from her father, and I don't know. I, there was an email, I don't know if it was addressed to the supervisor or to me, but it was definitely talking about the fact that, you know, Scarlet had a panic attack because of the stress that.

Shelby puts on her, you know, and I knew then the reasoning behind it, but I know that I probably wouldn't have known earlier. And so I, I guess I just wanna help you if you have gone through something similar to understand that. Not only do you maybe blame yourself in a situation like that, like what did I do wrong?

How could I have done it differently? You are also, I know, being blamed probably anyway, of being accused from the other side about, causing stress in your kiddo's life, you know? .

So I have a couple points to make based on that last little story there. One of them is that  attachment theory supports the idea that. When the alienated child, is with us, the rejected parent that, their underlying desire,

for attachment, closeness intensifies. It triggers grief at , this perceived loss while they're there.  Like, okay. For me, when I was like, Hey mama, how can I help you?  Maybe I'm reading into it, I don't know, but in my eyes, I could see the switch in her and I think that that.

Triggered grief at the perceived loss of me and of our relationship. Right? Which she though can immediately, almost instantaneously misinterpret as distress caused by my presence. So she's got this grief. She doesn't know what it is she's saying, it's a panic attack or whatever.

She interprets it, misinterprets it That it's me that's causing it, as opposed to No, it's the grief of this dissolution of our relationship in the way she's emotionally, interpreting it.

They also can have, just as we were talking about last week, your children, especially alienated children, can have developed a disorganized attachment style.

And so they feel like they're caught in a, double whammy sort of thing, right? Where they're they're unable to receive any attempts to , help regulate their emotions and comfort, attempts to comfort by us, the rejected parent. Due to their conflicting beliefs about the loyalty conflict that's going on, right? Like when that happens, when they want to be close with us, all of a sudden they get pulled back, which I know that a lot of you guys already know.

But I think in this context, it's good to consider when you see your child displaying worrying or new or distressing symptoms, behaviors.

And then, most children will not ever exhibit over distress, sadness, or anxiety, or they may appear like numb or disconnected,

Depending on whether

they suppress their symptoms.

To avoid further conflict or rejection or also to avoid, vulnerability right with us because the second that they do let that out, like the true feelings out, they may, and I'm talking about here, like with my daughter, how she, was clearly upset and emotional in that moment, but wasn't really sure how to label that.

She also. Wasn't able to access the part of her that says, this is okay to be vulnerable here with my mom. Because she's already getting the message that I'm dangerous and that I'm like careless and that I, don't love her enough so it makes sense why they are either the guarded with you or overly , emotional, seemingly out of control, right?

That's because there's this overflow. Of, unhealed trauma. And I know when I say that, that that isn't necessarily the most comforting thought or idea. It might've made me feel a little bit more out of control than I did before to know or to address the reality that this is what's going on.

But I also think that with that understanding, then you can equip yourself with the tools to move from there, right? So that you don't get tied up in thinking about all the ways that. This is really awful for your children. Not that it's not, but I just don't know that that's helpful,

 

 

Attachment theory in general, strongly supports the idea that , our children may display physical symptoms of trauma, nausea, anxiety, panic attacks. Seizures even. There's a, I may have talked with you guys about this,  now that I'm saying this out loud. There is a emotional response kind of seizure that happens, and I had it written on my refrigerator for a long time.

It's like a trauma induced seizure that happens in children,  And actually even in adults,  I forget what it's called now, we could probably look it up. It is a direct result of pent up trauma in someone and it, comes out, in seizures, So  many of the symptoms that you might be seeing, are manifestations of trauma.

Much of the time, the rejected parent is the safest place for those symptoms to come out to be shown to release themselves, not with the alienating parent, but with the alienated parent. . Due to the way that safety and emotional regulation function in attachment relationships. So attachment theory posits that children turn to their primary attachment figure, wherever they get their safety and comfort from to process their overwhelming feelings. Any feelings like that that is done in a safe place and whoever they perceive in their emotional brain,  not what they're saying oftentimes anyway, but in their emotional brain when they are more relaxed and able to be themselves really, and not have a false self like that.

Guard up. Of course, just like with anything else, then they're able , to release whatever it is they've been holding onto and, , freezing up otherwise,  on the other side of things, a child often, as you guys probably already know, but I wanna state it here because I feel like there are not just those of us alienated parents that have done all the reading. There are some that maybe you've just figured out that alienation is going on.

Um, strategies have been put in place. Child will suppress distress with a caretaker who is emotionally unavailable, unpredictable, or punitive, which is common with the alienating parent in order to maintain whatever stability possible

and avoid further stress, punishment, or disapproval. Okay? So in order to regulate, help to regulate the alienating parents, otherwise unre regulatable emotions. The child steps in and mirrors what the alienating parent is asking for from the child, right?

Like,  oh they're not safe, right? You didn't feel safe. They're going to mimic that back. Maybe they don't believe it  like that's not their experience of you, but because they sense that this will regulate this parent and in their minds, the kid's mind, I need to help them to feel okay, this will help eliminate a source of contention or stress for my alienating parent.

Then I will just tell them what they already wanna hear and things calm down. And so if alienating parent has a problem with alienated parent, then kid is going to sense that and start. Doing whatever needs to happen in their mind to regulate that. And by doing so, when the kid is there in that state of mind and saying whatever they know makes the other parent, the alienating parent feel at ease, they have to put on this false self.

Right? And I know that many of you know this, so just stick with me for a second while I explain this, just in case somebody else doesn't. , They have to put on this false self. And that includes taking any of the vulnerability and emotionality out of the equation because to tap into that part of their emotions, that part of their, , subconscious and their, , their belief system and their attachment basically is to risk.

Not being there for the alienating parent in the way that alienating parent needs. , So they have to keep it zipped up and then when they come over to our house, if that's what's happening for you right now, they can finally zip out and take a breath, right?

It's like being in a tight pair of pants or a tight dress on Thanksgiving Day, you know, funny, not funny at all, but , you're full to the gills and you cannot move an inch and you can't sit . But the second that you unzip that.

And you're able to relax. It is like everything, right? Even if the, there's some pain along with that relaxation because of your gut and whatever. And it's the same sort of thing emotionally, when a child feels safe enough to express their true selves right? Show what's really big going on. And so what happens there is that if they have been so zipped up for so long, there's this overp pouring of all this pent up emotion and um, that can manifest into physical symptoms as well.

Like what my daughter experienced with the earlier story about her seizures. But it makes sense why that would happen. When she felt safe and why that couldn't happen. Her nervous system. The body's amazing at protecting us when , it knows that we can't handle whatever's happening like anymore on top of it.

Dissociation is a helpful tool in the middle of these trauma causing events that are happening, especially repeated sort of trauma. So that also can explain why there's that transition period in between one house to the other when they zip right back up On the way back to the alienating parents' house, you guys know what I'm talking about.

I'm sure like almost every single one of you, unless you have an infant.

I'm sure you understand where they will mentally, emotionally, zip it all the way up and detach from whatever conversation they might've been engaging in with you just a little bit beforehand. Um, my daughter went through phases like this. Sometimes it took a full three days for her to move out of that transition phase.

Like it was kind of up and down for a while there, like where she would three days after that she was completely like, I don't wanna say normal, but her energy was back and she was, um,  the reason I don't wanna say normal is not because she was never not normal, but because normal isn't a thing in my world,  but she was not displaying any signs of, of stress or, Sickness or anything like that. Usually after around three days and then it like moved to be 24 hours ahead of time and sometimes it was only 12 hours.

It really just phases, developmental phases I think had an effect on that too. And of course whatever was happening over at the other parent's house and the stress that was, being put on her there, like the pressure, you know, but that would explain why those transition periods are sometimes so detectable, like painfully detectable, they're getting suiting back up to go back in .

And I don't wanna say it like that. I don't, though I know you, many of you would probably appreciate it if I did. I definitely don't want to demonize or be one sided about this.  Because I already know that y'all are there.

Like most of you have either been there or you are there now where you're like,

 

 it's them. They're the fucking problem. They're evil, they're Satan. Well, that's where everything's happened with our kids.  And I'm not saying that obviously alienation had to have started somewhere, you know, but I do think that number one,  living in blame and being like they're the problem is not going to get anybody anywhere.

It's only gonna cause you to feel like it's gonna cause sickness inside of you, , and then also it's gonna cause tension on y'all's relationship. And when they're away from you, it's really going to eat at you and probably cause you, health deterioration as well.  Well, I mean, that's definitely what happened with me for a long time until I  came across and then developed my own tools to move forward, so I don't think it's just, I don't wanna come off as like they have to zip up because over there it's a war zone. 

It might be,   but I don't know how useful it is for you to focus only on that.  also think On the other side of things, if I'm gonna say it the way I've said it, I also think that there are times where, let me speak for myself, where I was the source of stress for her, not meaning to, and definitely not with the intent to hurt her or them, or anybody.

Right? Because I was too scared to try to hurt them. You know? I just, that was, that isn't my style. It never really has been to be, um, like, Revengeful or any of that because that was never the route that worked for me as a kid. And so it wasn't gonna start in the middle of alienation when I was already feeling like high stress and in, um, freeze mode.

But anyway, I will say though that I know that I created stress because I was trying to avoid stress, and by avoiding stress, my stress came out double time without me. That wasn't my intention onto myself in the situation which created stress for her, you know? So I'm not, I don't wanna say, at fault or guilty because I don't wanna make it about right, wrong, or who's being a better parent or the worst parent.

It's not about that. It's about learning from. Your situations over time and learning to adapt and grow through the mistakes that you've made before or through the mistakes that maybe somebody else has made. You know, just learning what works best for your situ, situation. And that is going to evolve constantly too.

It's ever changing. , So I think it is entirely, plausible that if your kiddo is displaying symptoms that seem like to be, , coming from a bigger, like because of alienation, and they're only happening at your house or that's all you have the information for, because of the communication breakdown between you and the other parent.

It could very well be. And all of the data is there to back that. It's not that you are to blame, it's because this is where your children can now feel safe to express themselves. This is , their comfort zone. And then that's when all of it comes out. And that when I say all of it comes out, that could also mean behavioral issues.

That could also mean like hateful talk, being mean, angry. Controlling because now they feel like they could kind of make up for what they feel like they might be losing or don't have the ability or, agency to express or do over at the alienating parents' house. I think there's just a balance to all of this. And you wanna use, as I, you hear me say often is you wanna use all of this information to help you, not to hurt you or harm you, hold you back. Because it's very easy to get stuck ruminating,

and looking for evidence to support the beliefs that you already have.  whatever you're looking for, you're gonna find, right? So if you wanna go down the whole of how they're ruining your life and your kiddos, or how they're the detriment.  And you are perfect. And nothing would be happening if it wasn't for them.

Not to say that that wouldn't farewell in court, you know what I'm saying? But on your everyday life, this is only going to keep you stuck in a holding pattern and it's actually not gonna serve you or your child or y'all's relationship together. Okay.  just to do a quick, recap of that is that research is out there. The data shows that children frequently display major distress in physical symptoms, crying, clinging, nausea, falling apart, when they feel safe enough  especially in the presence of a secure, trusted caregiver or parent.

Okay? So I want to keep saying that this is not directed at you when they're doing it. This is where they feel safe enough to do it. This is where their system, like all the way down to their biology, not just what's coming out of their mouth or like what you know from, other data, right?  This is their biology.

Their nervous systems are allowing them to let go when they feel the safest. I mean, in a way you could take it as a, not that their symptoms aren't something to be, looked into watched and paid attention. You can also take it as reassurance that you're doing the right thing.

You know that you're doing right by your child,  There's a phenomenon that also supports this called the secure base effect, which reflects their neurological release of stress once their nervous system detects emotional safety. Okay. So there's so many different explanations all the way down to your child's biology that would, , support what I'm talking about here today. 

So just know that it's not just like a, you know, this is my thoughts on it. Other people's thoughts also say the same, and probably in more succinct and better terms than I am today. But anyway,

 when they're go switching on and off and when they've got that adjustment period, right, the transitional period that is.

Our children basically demonstrating splitting, right? They're going from their one self, their true self, right to this false self, this false persona that they put on. And maybe there's, , I don't always think it's like 50 50 black, white.

 

There's, it's on a spectrum like everything else, regardless it's how they learn how to deal, And so it, if they're experiencing genuine distress and upheaval inside, they're not gonna express it when they're in their false self.

They're only gonna express it and release when, they know that their distress is going to be met with genuine attunement and love and care, just like holding it together. When you're at a work conference or you're in, imagine remember back when you were in school and you maybe saw a rumor was spread around you.

I mean, I'm making this more, . Trivial, but it is still the same pattern. So when they're with the alienating parent, it makes sense. Like, I think about this all the time. My daughter was one that, um, she always got good grades even through all of the mess that was going on. I know that can be true for a lot of y'all too,

and in the courts, the courts will take good grades and being well liked and getting along with their peers, report from the guidance counselor, whoever shows up at court, the judge will take that as a sign that things are going well with the kid.

And not to say they aren't, but also this is a typical. Response for a child who is under a overly controlling environment at the alienating parent's house, the child learns to mask symptoms, symptoms, physical symptoms, um, emotional symptoms, all of the symptoms, like struggling, right?

But also they learn to mask their emotional needs, they're gonna appear calm or on the other side they'll be hostile because honest expression could threaten the relationship or elicit negative consequences. They know that they have to hold it together over there. They have to get the good grades they have to continue on with the loyalty contract that they have with the alienating parents.

.  Or else,  going back on that contract feels impossible because it's already too late. Like too much has been invested and how can they rewrite the relationship?

They're already scared and don't want them to decompensate the alienating parent, but also don't want to experience the negative effects of that, you know?

So, ,

The emergence of trauma symptoms with a safe parent with us is not a sign of harm by us, but rather proof of the critical role of secure attachment and allowing children to process distress while emotional suppression with the alienating parent is a protective adaptation to reduced threat or rejection. So basically we're their home base, you know, the safety and if you have not been in contact with them and they don't have access to, you don't have access to them. I know that this can cause worry and anxiety.

So I'm gonna provide you with things that you can do, to lessen your anxiety so that you can be like, tend to yourself if they're away from you, maybe they're grown, maybe they're over at the other parent's house for periods of time, so now, , while you are alone and not with them all the time, this is the time that you can use to care for yourself and not distract yourself with blame or shame, but instead develop a real self-care plan that involves, um, I wanna say compartmentalizing, but I don't know that it's that, like.

One way or the other. It doesn't necessarily mean that you need to only like only think about it in certain times. It's just a balance, as I always share with you guys, or offer to you guys of like drop coming in and out of recognizing these symptoms or the real concerns that you have and then taking 50% some more time off of doing that and paying attention to yourself.

Hopefully that makes sense. Basically, I'm, I'm just gonna offer you some, some mindsets, tools.

Okay. Alright, so now I'm gonna go into, how you can help your child if they're in your presence. Like if they, you do have access to the. Here's what you can do. Help them to regulate their emotions. And the way that you can do that is by first taking care of yourself. If you are feeling emotional or, anxious, reactionary like you're feeling, like you could be set off. It's really important to take care of your thoughts and beliefs like ahead of time before they get there.

So if like they're coming, you know that they're gonna be coming for the weekend, make sure that you do a thought download, like I always talk about and get those thoughts out of your head. And then just create a space. a container for you to just put those there, dump them, and then be able to walk away from them.

I mean, if you're coaching with me, then you know that there's more to that process, but that is a really good start so that you get the crap released somewhere outside of you that really helps for you to get some distance. Okay. , Work on your. Mental health all the time, especially while they're away from you, so that you can feel and be consistent and present in order to help your child to feel safer and gradually rebuild the trust and help them to regulate.

Okay, so that's one. Another way that you can. Keep things like regular for them is by maintaining loving communication if possible. Okay. Keeping con like positive contact, whether that's just little baby texts. No, like leaning on them. , Needing them. Right. Just, Hey, was thinking about you.

I love you. Sort of texts, letters, check-ins. Little, maybe like a gift card here and there. Just little nothings, little something. Nothings, you know, just to remind them that you are thinking about them. They are loved , so I used to do this in the way of sandwich bags.

Maybe if you've heard me talk about it before, I used to draw my daughter sandwich bags. And so after, I mean I did this all the time, but I especially like to put more thought into it. On the last day she was gonna be with me. So I would make a summary, like draw a picture of our time together while she was home.

I think I've told you guys before that like when we would go to the fire station for her girl scouts, either before or afterwards, I would do a little fire, a girl in a fireman's, uniform one time we met Willie and so I, I did a her and Willie picture, on her with magic markers sharpies that got thrown away, you know, her sandwich bags.

But anyway, it was just some way to

Monumentalize. I don't mean like that, but like have her solidify the memory of our time together and how meaningful it was not intrusively, just little nudges. Nods to it. Okay, so the other thing, and I know that you guys know this, is avoid negative talk about the other parent because that's gonna add to the unsafeness that they already feel that's causing this whole problem, where they've got this, all this anxiety building up and that it explodes.

Right. So refrain as much as possible from criticizing the other parent, even in a backhanded way. And I know that every, probably every single one of you will be like, yeah, of course I know. And I always do that. But I can tell you over and over and over again during my sessions with my clients, I hear it come out in them and they don't even notice that they're doing it right.

The judgments that kind of come out in ways that they. Feel like they, they have to like over-compensate or make up for what the alienating parent is doing or not doing. Does that make sense? So really keep that to a minimum. Like there should be you, let them know that you're doing something because you're making up for what they're not doing.

'Cause it intensifies this, their whole loyalty conflict and the trauma that's inside of them. Okay. The other thing that you can do is to document everything. Note all the patterns, right? The interactions, seek support for yourself, and of course you can use that if you are planning on going back to court or mediation or whatever could happen in the future.

Then you have all that stuff with you and ready to use. You know, I, I really underestimated the power of logging for a long time. Then now I look back at the times when I finally did start doing it towards the end of all of the, the mess, you know, when I was still with her back in Texas.

And I never in a million years would've remembered the detail, like to my story, you guys have heard me. So with some of the journaling, I don't know that I ever would've remembered some of those details. Never. And so it really, it, it is important for so many reasons, for your own documenting, to help your kiddo, but then also later on for you to, to gain more understanding and then help you on your healing journey.

Okay? So document everything, and note the patterns so that you can also bring that to doctors and whoever that you need to, if it is that they're showing, having symptoms, seizures, or anything that you're concerned about. Okay. Now for you,

focus on what you can control or what can be controlled. Your direct energy towards self-care and the quality of each interaction you have with your child, focus on that rather than the behaviors occurring in the time that you don't have them. Okay. Because as I probably said yesterday at some point in this episode is that those, if you're consistently thinking about how this is screwing with your child's, wellbeing and while you're, they're away, you're wring your hands and wondering what the effects are gonna be on them from today and then years to come.

It takes you off your game and puts you in a, in a. Place of anxiety and a place of stress and trauma. Right. And that will just build on each other. And when you're that in that place, focusing on what's things that you can't control, especially your kiddo that you can't save, you know, which is by the way, the, the, depending on the type of.

Alienating parent on the other side. That's actually what they might be doing too, because they really believe that they're their saviors, you know? So not to say that we are not act you, you know what I'm saying? , I think it's always nice to present both sides of the story just for understanding, for our sakes.

But when you're focused on all the things that you can't control and what might be happening to them, what do you think about it for you? What do you do from that place? You're not doing anything productive is my guess. From the place of, oh my gosh, my kid is going to be screwed for life, and it's gonna come out in them sideways and what's gonna happen to them at school or with their friends, or

are they gonna be okay? You know, when you're there, you're not looking for solutions or taking care of what you can in the moment. You're ruminating and you're sitting and you're, you end up your own health goes to shed, you know, and all that worry that's pent up inside of you you know, that churning in your belly.

It does no good. So instead, if you can focus on your self-care, it kind of, it helps to. I mean, this is a, it was felt like a very radical strategy I guess, to employ, , when I was doing it because I thought,  well, I'm a mom all the time. I can't just make this part-time.

You know, that's not me. That's not that biologically, that doesn't even just seem normal to just cut it off and pretend like nothing's happening. But it really, truly, as far as I know, is  In all of my experience with other parents and also with myself, it is the most helpful way to approach the situation.

I'm not saying completely turn it off, but you use the time to care for you because now more than ever it's important that you, looking at all those thoughts and beliefs that you have, right? And looking at the fears that you have and addressing them in a way that puts you in at the advantage, right?

Puts you in a, more empowered place, not feeling more helpless, because that's what ruminating will do for you. But so it, it does help you to, makes it very clear where your responsibility ends and where theirs begins. Just if it's dictated by, or man by the law, by what your, custody agreement is.

So if you just would abide by that. Noting all the things, knowing that you've made your documentation, you're continuing to do that, and then you're taking care of yourself. Then you're that much clear minded for when they do come home so that you can provide that supportive atmosphere and be there for them.

Be that solid, foundation for them,

of course. Educate yourself. Kind of goes with all of your self-care, understanding the whole dynamic of alienation, and then also, dealing with your unhealed trauma can make sense of the confusion or contradictory behaviors of , your child, but also y your own behaviors. And then it can reduce self blame and helplessness.

Okay. So having always, of course, right, the more information you have. The, the better off you are, ,  information is power,  you know, and of course, if you haven't gone to therapy then, or coaching, , therapy deals with the things that have happened in your past, your unhealed trauma and coaching deals with today and moving forward, your plan moving forward, right?

Like how you're gonna move through this. Your everyday maintenance. It helps to reduce your incurring any more unhealed trauma. Instead, you can just deal with it in the moment moving forward, right?

It's all a matter of perception. And so if you . Have dealt with your past with a therapist, and then now today you're maintaining, yourself throughout all of these new events, if you will, that come up. And even just throughout your days and other relationships that you have, if you're managing your mind in an effective way, then you're not carrying trauma.

That the idea is then if you've dealt with this and always stuff comes up, you know? But for the most part, and you're dealing with. Stressful situations as they arise by talking with a coach or whoever you choose, , you're not carrying anything with you, you know, and that in turn will help you to be entirely present for your kiddos, when they are there, or maybe they're not right now. And that's also like if you're in my situation. Or somewhat similar, where your kids, maybe you're even grown and they're not speaking with you.

That's okay. Keep working on yourself. I mean, maybe it's not okay for you, but you know what I'm saying? There are steps that you can take and that is just to continue to work on yourself and, the idea is to keep opening yourself up to the idea of them reentering back into your life at some point on their terms.

That's okay. It doesn't have to be now, now at least anyway, if you want to focus on what you can control and continue to be happy, if you will, you know, feeling like you're on the right track. So

the fact that they're displaying any sort of symptoms or behaviors, attitudes, whatever. That resemble trauma, right? Grief, anxiety, shame, what have you. That intensify around you

I'm confirming with you that this is due to, or can be very likely due to, conflicting attachment needs and loyalty binds. Okay, so they're in the middle of this loyalty contract. That they're having to uphold.

They don't know that they don't think about it this way. They would never ever admit to that, but that is exactly what's happening. They feel conflicted because they cannot. Open up to you in the way that they want to. So the way that sometimes that comes out is sideways.

So attachment theory. Also more recent trauma research strongly support the idea that the alienated child is more likely to display trauma symptoms such as anxiety, emotional dysregulation, grief, shame may come up for them when in the care of us, the rejected parent. It's because the exposure to both us. The rejected parent and the alienating parent can trigger a disorganized attachment response, right, leading to internal conflict on their part, overwhelm, , and visible hidden trauma related behaviors in our children. It makes sense. It all makes sense. And if you're worried about it, yes, obviously bring on the help of whatever professionals you see fit.

But also really l help to learn how to regulate your own emotions if you, if you aren't there, which it is common for parents going through this to not, effectively. Regulate their own emotions. Right. That makes sense. Because of your overflow of undealt with trauma.

So really, like I keep saying, focusing on what you can control and it, your own emotional responses is going to help your kid ultimately. Of course it always will and it'll help y'all's relationship together. It helps you to be more present and. Provide a supportive understanding environment for your kiddos to thrive in while they're in your presence or when they do come into your presence again.

, So I look at all of this, , if you are, they've been away for a long time and maybe you're doing other things with your life, they're adults, whatever. It's okay. Even your daily upkeep now. Will prepare you for any relationship you have in the future, and especially your kiddo. When, if and when they do come back, which I, I always like to say when they come back because  I can't not believe that.

, I don't do it for this reason, like I'm not just taking care of myself so that she will come back. I think that that can work against you, but I just can't, , in my right mind believe that doing all this work on yourself, that that wouldn't attract them energy wise back to you. Because you becoming whole again.

Taking care of yourself is like a magnet in, in my mind, it's very attractive to all people really, or most people anyway, that are interested in that, but especially to your kids when they're craving and maybe don't have the ability to regulate themselves yet, you can be that source for them, even from afar.

All right, I'm gonna go, I have to go edit this and get this out to you guys. So I will see you next week. Bye.