If your child has stepped away and you lie awake at night wondering "What did I do to cause this?"  "is this my fault?"  "Did I fail?" and/or "Am I alienated or am I estranged?", you're not alone—and the distinction matters more than you think (but the reason may surprise you). Understanding whether you're experiencing parental alienation (where another adult actively manipulates your child's perception) or estrangement (where your child independently chooses distance) isn't about labels—it's about finding your roadmap to healing. In this episode, parental alienation coach Shelby Milford unpacks the critical differences between alienation and estrangement, explores the messy middle where both overlap, and offers compassionate guidance for parents navigating the excruciating pain of being separated from their children.

What You'll Learn:

Shelby breaks down the telltale signs of parental alienation: the specific type of triangulation - the role reversal where your child becomes the confidant to the other parent, the hostile atmosphere where nothing you do is good enough, and the parroting of adult opinions your child was never meant to carry. She then explores estrangement vs alienation, including both realistic/justified estrangement (where genuine harm occurred) and protective estrangement (the no-contact movement among adult children). Most importantly, she addresses the complex cases where regret and alienation patterns coexist—because your story doesn't have to be black or white.

Why This Matters:

Whether you're dealing with alienated parent syndrome, navigating parent-child estrangement, or somewhere in the messy middle, this episode offers practical journaling prompts, self-compassion practices, and clarity on where to focus your healing work. Shelby reminds us that your nervous system doesn't care about labels—it just knows the rupture. But understanding the dynamics at play can soften the self-blame, reduce the uncertainty, and help you meet yourself with more accuracy and compassion on your road to healing.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT 

Understanding Alienation vs Estrangement: Why It's Important for Your Healing

if your child has stepped away, you might lie awake, wondering,  am I alienated or am I estranged?   📍 📍 📍 📍 Am I actually the problem? Are they the problem? What's going on here?  your body likely feels all of that, the questioning and the going round and round in your head, replaying events as panic, dread, and or numbness on occasion, maybe for a period of time. 

Your brain spins on what the crap just happened, right? Or what's been happening while your nervous system is trying to survive the shock of being without your child. .  Today I wanna unpack the two words that we all hear a lot, which is alienated and estranged. And I wanna look at,  this is the whole purpose of the episode, you guys.  📍 📍 📍

I wanna look at how they overlap, how they differ, and most importantly, how understanding them, each of those and where you fit into there, can actually soften the , self-blame, and, Uneasiness due to uncertainty that you might be feeling and carrying. Okay,  so I wanna make this really crystal clear from the get though this episode, none of my episodes are.

But this episode specifically is not about slapping a label on you and your child, or your child, whatever, however you wanna say that. It's about   📍 📍 giving your system a clearer map of what you're living so that you can meet yourself in your road to healing with more accuracy and compassion.  Okay?  Otherwise, I don't think that there would be really be a point to accepting some sort of label.

But I do believe that knowing what you're dealing with, just like with anything else, information is power, you know? knowing what you're dealing with is going to give you your roadmap to relief. Healing and relief.  So if at any point you notice your chest tightening, your heart racing and your brain wanting to argue with me, it's a hundred percent understandable.

Okay? A hundred percent. And like I said, bring it on. Let me know too if you've got some differences of opinions or you think that I've missed something. .  If at any time you feel so activated that it's annoying to you, please pause the episode. Episode and come back. . You are not wrong if it feels like a lot. 

What Is Parental Alienation? Signs and Definition

, 📍 📍 📍 So first I wanna give you the Shelby version of both, the definitions of both words. So we're gonna start with alienated parent. yeah. So for a long time. Back in the day, like before there was much out on the internet about alienation. I mean, and when I say back in the day, I'm talking even 20 16, 20 17,  There was very little on the internet , when I googled the term back then, the definition almost always went. Something along the lines of, being alienated or alienation was a child's rejection of one parent, which is disproportionate to how a parent actually showed up.

And then at some point they added to it by saying, there must have been a prior positive relationship between the parent and child, that there must have been the strong loving bond. The problem with that definition is

it's not measurable.

Yes, you can show pictures and you can get, um, witness accounts, but it's still all kind of hearsay there's no empirical evidence, what I think, and I know that many of you guys out there that have been educating yourself in any way, really, you probably also know that alienation entails some form of triangulation,  not some form, a specific form of triangulation that happens, right?

And so 

what do I have here? Four or five main points that I think, and I probably got these from, uh, you know, the researchers and what have you. And also maybe just, I added my observations on here as well. Maybe my, um, borrowed or adopted observations. But still   📍 📍 📍 📍 what I have here is alienation is where a child gets low key, promoted into the parent role with the favored parent. They become the confidant, the advisor, or the emotional caretaker. Sometimes even the one taking sides and protecting that parent.  📍 📍 , 📍 📍 Point number two is that the other parent, the alienated parent, you and me, ends up getting subtly downgraded. You end up noticing that you are the one seeking your child's approval,

you're walking on eggshells, you're explaining yourself, overexplaining yourself, almost like you're the kid and they're the judge,   📍 📍 📍 📍 the third one I have here is that the atmosphere around you starts to feel hostile and one sided.

Now, I will say that this happens when the kids are a little older, not obviously. I mean, maybe it can happen, but not younger toddler age and early elementary, not usually, but it can start to feel a little colder, And one sided. There might be constant criticism. You might be hearing that from the other parent, nitpicking contempt and very little curiosity happening,

It's like you're living in a field of fault finding

where you can't get it right, no matter what you do. That's what it feels like, .  📍 📍 📍 📍 Number four that I have here on the list is that your child may repeat details and opinions that clearly came from the other parent's private world, as if they're sitting in on adult.

Your child is sitting in on adult conversations and conflicts. They were never meant to carry. I have, I don't know why this is coming to me right now. It's probably 'cause I was thinking about it the other day. I put on a shirt that re that was like this, uh, dark, army green, And it reminded me of one time when I was in the car with the other ex and my daughter was still young at that point, maybe five, six maybe.

And we were driving, I know, I remember exactly what stoplight we were at in Austin and we were talking about eye color. And so we were talking about his eye color, my now ex, his eye color. And then we were talking about my daughter's eye color. And then we talked about, he brought up my eye color and he's like, yeah, yours are green.

And my daughter in the back chimed in. She goes, yeah, swamp green. But the way she said it, the look on her face, she actually had an upturned upper lip, you know, like that swamp green. Though she didn't mean to be mean, you could tell that she was parroting what I think the stepmom probably said to her, because at my daughter's age, where would she come up with swamp green?

You know? It was just so like, shocking in the moment. I just couldn't believe it. But I did, of course, until I just actually, I think I laughed like, wow. Anyway, um, it's just one of those telltale signs that you know, that there hearing things or they're being told things. And that one was of course not. And he sort of malignant, but in a line with an, in conjunction with all the other things you know, that that was causing some confusion in my daughter's mind, you know?

So, anyway, and I'm, and I know the reason I'm telling you that is 'cause I'm sure that if you are alienated them, the same thing is going on with you. we're similar.  📍 📍 📍 📍 So from the outside, the last thing I have written here for this little introduction part is that from the outside it can look like your child just decided that they hate you all on their own

inside the system. Though your child is actually adapting to chronic pressure by aligning with the stronger or more frightening adult, I think that that's really, it's not a lovely truth, but I think it's. Sometimes can be oddly comforting to know that it's not because your child  and I, you guys, I wanna say if you've been listening to me for a while, you already know this, but I wanted to make this one and actually last one in a couple others that I'm done and will do as my sort of foundational episodes so that anytime you need some information or you wanna pass something along to somebody that you can, this is more of, yeah, it's the foundation of what's going on, you know? 

Okay. So, , it is sometimes helpful in a way comforting, in an odd way  compared to what you've been dealing with, to know that your kid doesn't actually fully hate you.  It's not because of something that you've done. That's the difference with alienation.  Um, with alienation and estrangement.

Ah, I don't even like the way I worded that because it's not necessarily always something that the other parent has done, estranged parent has ever done. So, um, anyway,  in a nutshell,   📍 📍 alienation involves coercive control.  And estrangement does not, and I'm gonna get to that in a second actually. So it can be, um, oddly comforting to know that it's, not just, but that your child is merely going through.  It's so odd doing this episode because I don't ever wanna minimize what they're going through our children, what you are going through, you're an alienated parent and if you're an estranged parent, what you are going through.

Because  all of us, and this, I'll talk about this two in a minute. It's all painful.  so if this is you as an alienated parent, your nervous system is probably stuck between fight flights and collapse. Fight, flight or freeze.  Part of you guaranteed wants to shout out what they're saying is not true.  But another part of you probably also wants to curl up and disappear because being seen as dangerous or unloving by your own child is an unbearable grief. You know, and that too reminds me of so many times when my daughter was in grade school, um, and things happen.

i'm not gonna go in just for sake of time. I won't go into to examples today, but many, many times where the stepmom, made herself present at my daughter's events, you know, and made me out to be this dangerous, unfit mom. Very, very outspoken and loud to. All they could hear in the classrooms, and it's just an awful feeling.

So it makes sense if you're like outraged, feeling this outraged. And at the same time you just wanna curl up into a dark corner and not reappear ever, because the shame that goes along with feeling like your kid thinks that you're knowing maybe even that your kid thinks that you're dangerous, that other people think that your kid thinks you're dangerous.

You know? So, um, anyway, this is a form of ambiguous loss.  your child is still alive, but psychologically absent from you physically, maybe even too and psychologically absent from you. And the story about you and their minds has been hijacked.

Where you are, once seen as this loving, present, participating, happy, go lucky, maybe even parent. Now this story is complete shifted, right? And it's like, what I used to say is I was living in my own personal Hell, you know? So now we're gonna go to a strange parent.

I actually only meant to spend a couple minutes on the, the first one, but that's okay.

  📍 📍 📍 📍 📍

Estrangement vs Alienation: Defining Voluntary Parent-Child Separation

So now we're going to a estranged parent. And this is all again, in plain language. When I say estranged parent, what I'm talking about, what I believe, and I believe there's two kinds, but I'm gonna talk about that in a second, is, is situation where there isn't another adult actively coercing or manipulating the relationship.

Like there is not another parent or adult actively coercing or manipulating the relationship. Estrangement any which way you slice it it's an active choice by the person who pulls away to create distance. Usually because in their world, in their mind, that feels like the truest and or safest option in the moment. And maybe that moment is a lasting moment, you know? But it feels the safest to do that. It can be the parent or the child that pulls away. 

📍 And I've sectioned these off into two different kinds of estrangement. I couldn't really find when I went and did a quick search today and even asked Google's ai Gemini, is that what it's called? To tell me like, to give me the categories. It didn't do a very good job at it. So I just made my own from what I gather from my clients, because I do have some estranged clients.

Again, this is all Shelby is talk here. My perception, I'm going to right now make a transition, but just know that I'm gonna come back to you estranged parents, okay?  

Can You Be Both Alienated and Estranged? Understanding Complex Parent-Child Dynamics

📍 I wanna talk about the fact that there is a mixed and messy sort of middle And that is because we're human. We have complex relationship dynamics. Many of us don't fit neatly in one box.  Now, I will stand by that if if there's any coercive control, apparent ever has been that you cannot ever really switch over. From alienated to estranged because it started with, if I'm gonna be frank about it, brainwashing.

Okay. It started that way. That's what got the ball rolling. So you can't really ever switch over. I was alienated. Now I'm estranged in my, the way that I believe. .  I, I think a lot of alienation experts would back me up on that  but I will say that there can be some overlap in a way.

I know it sounds like I'm contradicting what I just said, but hang on. So maybe there was some harm or some, uh, negligence of some sort in the past, but now there's another adult amplifying or weaponizing that harm.  If you feel like you are a mix of both and you're not sure, like you have real regrets and you're also seeing an alienation pattern.

 This is why I made this episode. This is truly what motivated me to talk about this today.   📍 📍 You don't have to erase one truth to acknowledge the other. It doesn't have to be black or white.  And again, like I said, I don't believe that the labels make any fucking difference except for for you to determine how you're going to approach your healing, what kinds of questions you're gonna ask yourself, and where you wanna place your focus and what your goals are long term.

 

How Alienation and Estrangement Look Similar

Okay? So I wanna talk about now how they can, look similar from the outside. alienation and estrangement can obviously look almost identical,   📍 📍 📍 📍 📍 📍 in both you might be blocked, ignored, or attacked, even verbally, and sometimes physically by your child, to your body.

It all feels like my child is gone. I've lost my role in even my entire identity, which feels entirely unsafe, And so we both sides.   📍 📍 📍 Whether you're alienated or estranged, if you feel shunned by your child, it is intense amount of ambiguous grief that you're going through, Both can create a heavy disenfranchised type of grief,   📍 which is if you don't know, disenfranchised grief is a type of grief that society doesn't know how to honor or address.  Or maybe they do know how to honor or address it, but they don't, in which case, I still think that they don't know how. So

 people will tell you to move on, or they secretly wonder what you did. How many people listening can raise a hand to that, like either your family or friends. Oh, it's okay. They'll come around. It'll all be fine. . Create a life for yourself. 

Which by the way, I agree with the career to life for yourself,  but all of the other sort of pats on the back, not to say they don't mean well, but it doesn't feel great and it doesn't, definitely doesn't feel like support sometimes, you know? or they secretly wonder what you did and it maybe it's a whisper.

Or maybe they ask you point blank either way. Also don't feel su very supported.   📍 📍 📍 No matter what, no matter which kind of estrangement that you're experiencing or with alienation, there's a great deal of shame involved

and so when we're looking at it that way, looking at the similarities, your nervous system, knowing how much shame that you're experiencing can be experiencing anyway, when you're, it's still raw and new and acute. Your nervous system doesn't necessarily care which label applies to you for you. 

📍 It just knows. You just know you just feel this rupture and this ginormous question mark over all of it. Your relationship, your future, your past, your present, your role, your how, what people think, what you should think, what your child is thinking, how they're gonna react. I have an another parent I was just talking with you.

Yesterday that is so fearful of going and ringing the doorbell at her son's. He's now adult son and, um, her ex's house because the one thing she's worried about is him confronting her. And we dealt with that because actually, anyway, it's a for another, episode, but it makes sense if you feel so much uncertainty and fear around addressing your kiddo, the public, if you will, like your community, whoever's whispering or saying things.

It makes sense, , even your ex the schools. However,   📍 📍 📍 📍 so if your body is living in hyper vigilance and despair, you are not making just a big deal about it. Like, oh, it's all you, you're being drama, right?  No, your attachment system is responding to a very real loss, even if the world does not see it.

I see you and all the alienated, other alienated and estranged parents out there. See you, I hope. Anyway,  📍 📍

Key Differences Between Alienation and Estrangement

alright, so now I, we're at section four and I wanna talk about the key differences that matter for your healing. Okay? And so. My point here is just that I'm not trying to do this as some sort of meaningless courtroom exercise or blame here, right? I wanna do it as a way to understand what kind of inner work might be the most supportive and necessary for you, of you, for you.

 

Healing Tools for Alienated Parents

📍 Okay? Um, so we're gonna start with alienated parents, and then we'll go to estranged and then I'll address, the messy middle. So for alienated parents with alienation, one of the clearest clues, and I'm just doing a re review here, is the structure of the relationship.   📍 📍 Has the dynamic flipped?

Has your child been promoted into a parent or partner role with the other parent, while you find yourself downgraded, seeking their approval, walking on eggshells and living in the climate of criticism and nitpicking.

 Do you feel like you just can't do anything right, no matter what, which I know can also be estranged, but is it that they're partnered up with your, maybe now x-ray, maybe even a grandparent or some other adult? .   📍 📍 📍 If it's a yes there, then your primary work for you is going to be to notice the stories that you've absorbed about yourself.

When I worded that,  some people want to refuse that they've absorbed anything because our, our egos don't want to ever admit out loud or give energy to the fact that what the alienating parent has done has actually permeated you, your being, your thinking, because we don't wanna give that power up.

Though by not admitting it and staying in denial, you're actually handing it all over if that's you. Okay? It's ironic, but it's what happens   📍 can happen. so first you wanna notice the stories that you have about yourself, notice you're, inner dialogue when you're on your way. Um, for instance, on the way to do an exchange, If your child is still, you know, of exchange age, Or notice the way that you speak with yourself when considering your child, even if adult, okay?  if the stories ring somewhere near, I mean this, the first one's extreme, but I'm a monster.  I'm fundamentally unsafe.  I must have been the one that destroyed my child,   📍 📍 📍 📍 or what I do isn't enough like that. Instead of trying to resist those stories, you actually wanna turn toward them and with curiosity. Because the resistance, like I said, is only gonna bake them more in, believe it or not.

  📍 📍 📍 so the first question you can ask is, where did this idea come from? And the second question is, does it match my lived behavior over time? And I said it this way for a reason, and I'll get back to that in a minute. And then the last question here, the third question here is, is it actually true or Is it a broadcast from someone else's pain? Is this an adopted story? you wanna allow the current reality, which was really difficult for me to do, especially when it was acute, when everything was,  and when I say acute and I said this last week, and I wanna just, I want to go back to that and add to it.

 When I say acute, and it's Acute, usually means for grief in the first year when it comes to ambiguous grief, ambiguous loss, and what we as alienated or estranged parents are going through. And if there's trauma involved, complex, uh, trauma,  the acute quality, the acuteness is that it can last, in my opinion, last much longer than a year. 

feelings were very raw and agitating and activating for years  because I resisted. That my resistance, my denial, my wanting to steamroll over the situation of alienation and just fight back and defend and do all that stuff. You know, staying in the trauma response, which is okay, if you're there, that you're, any of that stuff, and especially the trauma response, please don't shame yourself for being there.

But that I was really, that was all very acute now, pain, you know, that I was feeling and actually more prolonging for myself because I wasn't, I was resisting,   📍 📍 📍 So you wanna allow the current reality,,   📍 an example of that would be like, my child is distant right now. Maybe physically and psychologically, all the things people believe, painful things about me, like they're painful to me. Hurtful things about me that feels painful. allow that current reality to be what it is. Okay?

People are saying shitty things. My child is being distant. Maybe more than distant. This is what it is right now. This is what we're working with.   📍 📍 📍 📍 And then at the same time, you wanna update your understanding of who you are as a parent based on evidence, not based on smear campaigns, not based on,

disparaging remarks  I'm gonna say that again. So we allow the current reality. Like for instance, my child is acting distant. They are distant. Maybe they're so distant that you haven't seen 'em in a while.

This is what's current. And people also right now are believing very icky things about me that it's causing me pain to think that they're believing these things. Right? That can all be true.  We actually don't even, unless somebody told you what they're believing about you, you can't even say that.

That's a fact. But I'm not gonna nitpick my own stuff right now.  So they're believing untrue things about me, allowing that to what it is for now. It is what it is. We can't control out there. Can't control how child's being, can't control how other people believe in what they say. But at the same time, you want to update your understanding of who you are as a parent based on evidence, not smear campaigns. 

. It's really important to separate that stuff out. So if you notice, and usually anxiously attached people, people will have the punishing self-talk, right? Like, oh, that's always me.

It was my fault. Probably very evident for you that you're doing that right? Because you feel like everything is always your fault. But, so if that's you, If you're taking the blame or if you're telling yourself that you're a bad parent or I must be a bad parent because my kid's not. This goes for all of you, not just alienated parents, but, my kids telling me that I was, you know, a monster, I must be.

Something's wrong. And it does happen. But  especially if you're not anxiously attached, these thoughts will fly very underneath the radar. They're very, um, sneaky how they come about. And you may be having like  an argument in your mind as if you're actually having a conversation with the other person, whether that's your kid or the alienating parent or somebody that's made a judgment, not you.

But then you notice too that you're defending yourself for that judgment made as if like there's a reason for you to defend yourself. Like for me, if you go and defend yourself, then you are, . In a way, like owning up to, or, you're doubting it yourself is how I kind of think about that. You know, or else why else would you respond to whatever's being said to you? 

I don't mean just you. I mean me too.   📍 📍 📍 📍 if this is you though, you wanna ground yourself in just one. This is a very simple exercise, but it can really be life changing if you do it over and over. And notice when you're saying what you're saying to yourself, um, ground yourself in one remembered moment where you showed up with love and stability for your child.

And I'm sure there were hundreds of them, but find one in that moment, okay? And then let you sort of immerse yourself in that and process that for a beat for a few minutes. Like submerging yourself into what you know to be true about you as a person, your character, your role, all the things, instead of nitpicking all these flaws that somebody else has told you about you. 

📍 📍 📍 Okay? And then the other one that you can do is you can write down three ways your life today contradicts the story that you're dangerous or uncaring. When I wrote this too, I just wanna be careful because I don't want you to go into defense mode for yourself. What I'm saying is, huh, that's funny because they are telling me that I am, I wanna add onto this.

They're telling me that I am. Um. Not present that I'm late all the time. That's another one that alienating parents love to say. And now I will say that a lot of us as alienated parents, I don't know about estrange with this one. I, I haven't really thought about it. This is all off the cuff right here.

Being late is a, is a characteristic of a lot of alienated parents I know. And I think it's sort of like, um, it's, I it's be, it comes from the anxiety that most alienated parents feel because of this whole dynamic, right? We show up maybe appearing neurotic and, um, anxious, paranoid, all the things, right? We appear like this non-functional, the non-functional parent, um, abusive, um, unloving, not present, you know, all the things.

Unfit parent yet. It's the other parent who's doing all the stuff and they show up, appearing altogether. Like put together, you know? So it is a little, um, bit of a paradox. Is that the word I wanna yeah. Paradox. But anyway, so you wanna write down three ways that your life today does not look like the story that, they might be saying that you're dangerous or uncaring.

Maybe it's how you show up for other kids. Maybe it's how you show up for friends, for your work, for, for yourself even. Okay. Read that list out loud and simply notice what happens in your body. Like, oh, right. My coach used to tell me to do this. Like, she, um, you know, years ago when I, I have told you guys this before, when she, when I was always worried that I didn't have discipline.

It's like, I'm not disciplined, I'm not, I just can never do follow through with what I said I was gonna do, and I'm always late and all that, what I'm just basically talking about here. And she was like, really? Well, how are you disciplined? And I offered this maybe a last week or a week before too. Find all the ways that you are disciplined, because if you're listening to them telling you that you're always late, that you're this, that you're, that, you're gonna start adopting that for yourself.

And you take that on as your own personality, like as part of your flaws and like how you show up in the world and all the things. And so that becomes it. It it, you're being brainwashed by them, you know? Um, so you wanna think for yourself is what I'm saying, but find concrete evidence to show how you are, um, something other than what you might already start to be believing. 

So your outer work, okay, you may choose, choose to work with legal professionals, therapists or coaches who understand alienation. Hello me, coach, um, who understand alienation, right? You may document, which by the way, I will say that, um, legal professionals, yes.

Outer work therapists or coaches, not so much outer work. I wrote that thinking about like the work that you'd like, the how you, what actions that you take, you know, on the outside. but anyway, you might also document patterns or follow legal protocols, or court processes.

But even in those spaces, in my humble opinion,   📍 📍 📍 your job is not to fight the narrative so much as to stay anchored in your own reality.   📍 📍 📍 The idea is here's who I actually am, and here is how I actually show up.

This is me.  And you're saying that maybe just to yourself, you don't have to go prove that to anybody.  so now I wanna talk about estranged parents, and the differences here, and then how we're gonna approach it .   📍 📍 📍 With estrangement.

There isn't another adult actively coercing or manipulating the relationship, right? It's an active choice by the person who pulls away to create distance. Usually because, and I just said this, usually because in their inner world, that feels like the safest thing to do.  📍 📍 📍

Realistic Estrangement: When Parent or Child Separates Due to Abuse or Crisis

The way that I see it though is that there are two broad kinds of estrangements in my opinion.

The first type is realistic or justified estrangement. the first time I heard about this was when I was in court when, and maybe many, many, many of you have gone through the same experience, right? Where you're in court and if your, attorney used the language alienation, then the opposing counsel and, your ex or whoever's doing the alienating, they may have introduced realistic, estrangement, Justified estrangement.

So in a nutshell, I believe that this kind of estrangement occurs when there genuinely was either abuse, some sort of serious illness, Neglect or instability present. This happens while your child is still a child. the estrangement may have grown as a result of things like you leaving the home. Whether that's you left for your career, you left because it truly wasn't safe for you to stay, maybe because of substances or because you are really struggling mentally or emotionally. Maybe it was just that at the time that you did it, You weren't ready to have kids, in your mind, you were like, I don't even know how to do this.

From your child's perspective, the distance becomes a way to protect themselves, From what was overwhelming or unsafe for them. what felt overwhelming or, unsafe for them, even if you can now see the bigger picture in a way that they can't. 

I have a friend that left. I. her ex and she had to leave the kids there. She actually, now that I'm thinking about it, so many of my, previous clients have had this happen.

She left the house thinking she could come back for the kids. You know, she was naive and didn't think that alienation or estrangement was ever a thing. And so she just left and then she couldn't come back. It wasn't safe for her to come back, so she stayed gone, you know, and at the time she didn't have any money and, and what have you.

And so she knew that the kids would be safe there. It was just him and her. So that's one way it can happen. And like I said, there probably could be definitely be a 2.0 of this, a lot more, circumstances, to apply for estrangement, especially in the realistic or justified estrangement.

Anyway, I'm gonna leave it like that. 

Protective Estrangement: When Adult Children Choose No Contact with Parents

📍 📍 📍 So the second type of estrangement is the type that we hear about so often these days, which is the no contact or very low contact protective, sort of estrangement a lot of the millennials.

I don't want to, the way that I was just getting ready to say that sounded judgy, and I don't wanna be, because I do believe that even in their minds they, it feels justifiable to cut their parents off. And I know that I probably have some. Kids, adult kids that listen to this too. And so no shade here whatsoever.

Um, so this kind of estrangement we're seeing more often these days, especially with adult children who have access to a lot of language about boundaries and toxicity. People, it's not just access to the language. I don't mean to dumb them down, but it's also access to a lot of other evidence in other people's lives due to social media.

You know? So your child may have stepped away because of their own interpretation of events or of your relationship, and their experience.

You may not have been there for them, in the way that they always needed. Their experience may have felt like chronic chaos, abandonment, or repeated broken trust, even if you remember doing your best in a very hard season. That inner landscape Going low contact or no contact can seem like the only way to find stability, Even if from your side it looks sudden or confusing. I mean, everything I see online, and I've been seeing this for, I don't know, at least a year, like on YouTube, you know, I always get suggested because of what I post on YouTube.

Um, I always get suggested. All sides of the family dynamics broke, like cut off family dynamics. Right? And so I see the kids talking about it. I see counselors, therapists who are supporting, um, quote unquote unjustified cutoff by the adult child, right? And then I also see, , of course, people opposed to it.

Oprah even did a whole special on it. I did not watch it though. I tell you, I had so many people send it to me, text it to me. But anyway, I didn't, I haven't even gotten around to watching it. Maybe I should have, maybe I'll include that in the 2.0 anyway.

  📍 📍 Here's what's important. None of this, none of what I shared with you throughout this whole thing is about deciding who's right or who's wrong. It's about honoring that estrangement usually grows out of somebody's lived experience, Whether that's your child's, whether it's yours  or both.  and then asking, given that this is where we are right now,   📍 📍 this is where we're at.

How do I care for my own nervous system? And if appropriate, how do I move toward accountability and repair?  Okay, so how do I care for my own nervous system, my own self? And if appropriate, how do I move towards taking some accountability and facilitating repair. So the inner work here is less about debating the label.

and more about getting curious

Self-Reflection Questions for Estranged Parents

.   📍 📍 📍 So questions I have here for you guys all the questions really could go for everybody, but specifically for estranged parents, how might this relationship have felt from their side?

Because usually in a heated debate, especially when we're talking about, no contact protective, the second type, I feel like both sides are really stuck firmly in their viewpoint.

And that is never going to get shit done. It's going to keep you guys at odds. So considering how might the relationship have felt from their side is really honestly considering it can be really helpful. Another question is, what were they adapting to? What might have shifted for them and could this have been a, an adaptive response to whatever shifted?

And the third question I have here is, what did my child's nervous system and inner being learn about safety, consistency, and care in my presence?

, I'm not here. We're not here. You're not here to marinate in shame. We are already feeling enough of that. Many of us have, especially if you're, it's new, acute, , intense shame will just freeze you. It will freeze you straight up and block you from any sort of healing. We're here to allow the grief.   📍 📍 Allow the possibility that their choice is protective, if it was their choice, and maybe allow the possibility that your choice was protective, if it was your choice.  And then explore what accountability and growth might look like for you regardless of what they decide or what you decide.

and I wanna say that because there at the time that if it was you that made the decision, like if it's type one I would put money on that . No matter how long it's been, Today you're either questioning your decision or you have a completely different outlook on your life. You're in a different spot. So if it was you that left, or it was you that was using substances or maybe not regulated with medicine or what have you, whatever your circumstances were, then

allowing for your own grief, you're not only to blame if it was your choice to leave, You, you are a human being that deserving of respect, your own respect to you especially, and love and care and compassion and all the things. And you gotta give that to you first.   📍 📍 So allow the possibility that whoever's choice was a protective one at the time.

And then explore what accountability and growth might look like for you. Regardless of what decision is made by them obviously you're not gonna show up like, Hey, I've changed. All is better. Do you wanna be best friends now to your kid?

Or do you want, let's just pick right back up where we left off where you feel like you've done the work, so they should just go ahead and forgive you or what have you. And that may not be received in the way that you hoped, you know? Um, so regardless of what they decide is why I say that.

  📍 So that might look like naming without excuses. There were times that I was definitely not emotionally available. I wasn't even emotionally able to be emotionally available for myself, let alone my kiddo. another way is like getting support for your own mental health addiction or trauma history, and I wanna say history.

Okay? Because it may not always be happening now, but like the, the trauma, unprocessed trauma that you were not dealing with then definitely informed your decisions or lack. the ability to be present back then, but today it may be a different story. If you still haven't, you may have learned to sort of, like if you get a limb cut off and you learn how to, deal with it like that, which, you know, you start to over-compensate, which is gonna give you, um, imbalances, If we're talking about kinetically in your body, you're going to develop these imbalances in the way that you walk. If it's a leg or like your arm and the way that you hold yourself, your posture's gonna be off because you didn't really deal with it. You just circumvented the actual physical therapy maybe, And the same here. So getting support for yourself is what I'm saying. Um, becoming very self-aware. Of what's happened. Not in shame, but in love radical self-love and acceptance, self-acceptance. and the last one is learning how to communicate in ways that don't pressure them or demand a timeline. 

Repair, if it does happen, we'll grow out of that soil, okay? Not out of insisting that they were wrong for stepping away if it was type two or not, out of insisting that they accept your apology 

When It's Both: Mixed Alienation and Estrangement

 

📍 📍 So for mixed cases, y'all, I, if I am gonna lay it out on the, on the table, I definitely feel like this is where I fit.

Um, because though I'm not, I'll read what I have, like I'll read my notes in a second. This is just again, off the cuff. Though alienation was definitely present. If you listen to all the episodes or even a handful of them, um, the older ones where I talk about my story and stuff, you, you know, like they, there was many, many countless attempts to alienate and to cut me out of my daughter's life.

By not only my daughter's father, but also the stepmom. Okay? Countless and I know that those attempts and their, desire to rattle me and to push me over the edge and to push me out to scare me off. I succumbed to those and I. like blue under the pressure, blue crumbled, however you wanna say it, under the pressure. I did not keep my composure. And I also had unprocessed trauma from the time, starting from when I was five years old, um, with some abuse that happened. This is no excuse. It is what it is. In fact, it's me taking accountability, um, publicly, even for my, my part in the, the alienation and or just my part in all of this, right?

without their attempts, if they were to be supportive of me, then none of this would be where it's right. but that's my responsibility to support myself. It's not theirs.

Yes, they harassed me. They, followed me. They belittled me. They berated me. They were incessant with their attacks on me and their, accusations, unfounded accusations, and even some of them that were, were, had the sliver of truth. They did all of that, and that that's on them, you know? And, and, and I took me a long time to ever say this, but it, everything that they were doing, it was abusive, you know.

Um, I feel like that word is kind of, it can itself, can be weaponized and actually not helpful, but, and it took a long time for me to ever use that word because it felt so weird to say that, but it's true. It is true. There was, it was very abuse towards me, Emmy, you know? Um, but also I had a good hand in screwing things up in the middle of all of the alienation.

I went out and danced on bars, I definitely drank my feelings away. I also used drugs, you know, when I was with my daughter's father, and sometimes afterwards there were things that I did. Now, was that ever happening around my kid? No. but it doesn't matter because those things only complicated.

Compounded my situation and caused the alienation to ensue, like to deepen, right? Because it gave them an in I gave them mammo. I just handed them over ammo. So I do believe that for me, there is a mix because I had a hand in it. It wasn't just that I was free and clear and everything that they said about me was an unfounded lie.

No, there was always a sliver of truth. And then that sliver of truth, of course, then I, you know, anyway, I, enough is enough. You know what I'm saying?

 

So if you are listening and thinking it's both, I did cause harm and there's an alienating person, parent, adult, making things way worse than I get you.

If you're carrying both regret, and seeing active alienation, you might feel like you're being pulled apart, One part of you wants to defend and another part of you wants to confess, for you. Your work is,   📍 📍 yes, I did. Things I'm not proud of, And no, I am not the villain that my ex is describing That's the advanced level self-compassion work.  You're allowed to have a complex story. It makes sense that you do. Especially probably from what you've come from. here's the prompts, These are not diagnostic questions. These are invitations from me to you to deepen your clarity without also attacking yourself. you might, you can either journal with them, you can just answer them here, or you can take them, like write down the questions and take 'em on a walk and just consider them, or like on a relaxing hike somewhere beautiful, depending on where you are in the world right now and how cold it is.

But you get my idea

Journaling Prompts for Complex Situations

.   📍 📍 📍 so question number one is when I'm very honest with myself, what are the hardest memories my child might be carrying of me? Okay, that's question one. What are the toughest memories that I fear that my kid still thinks about with me? I definitely have my top memories in my mind, but for sake of time, maybe at your request, I can share them and if that would make you feel less alone.

Um, one of the times I will just say is when I got arrested, but that one, um, with my daughter in the back of the car, but that one actually the stepmother, um, orchestrated. So anyway, um, but that still was the, one of the top ones. Like that memory kills me every time I think about it because I think about her face.

And then another one was also when my daughter was in the car and the stepmom sat on her. Um, which I think I brought that up with you guys recently. Um, uh, there's many. number two is, are there patterns of another adult undermining me, limiting contact or rewarding my child, even if silently for rejecting me? . Number three, does my child's current story about me feel proportionate to my behavior or is there a big mismatch? Like I said with this one, well, maybe I didn't say it, I said it in my mind, but in the beginning I talked about it, that like, that's what I could only find on the internet about alienation back in the day, is that the, the child's rejection is disproportionate or unjustified compared to how you showed up some version of that, you know? 

So when you are asking this to yourself. Make sure that you're coming from a loving spot for yourself, but also your child loving perspective for the whole situation. Like I like to think of my future most evolved self asking these questions to me, you know, with love and respect and kindness and considering everybody involved, even, I'm gonna knock my water over again.

Even the alienating parent. If that's you. So does my child's current story about me feel proportionate to the be to my behavior, my past behavior? Or is there a big mismatch? And again, I don't want this to be a reason for you to solidify your stance that you haven't done anything. It's all unjustified for your kiddo to cut you off If we're talking about estrangement, okay?

Because let's be honest, no matter which kind of avail, uh, estrangement this is. You know, whether this is the no contact like fad that's happening, or if this is because of something that you've actually done and know that you've done. If they are cutting you off, in their minds, their reasoning feels right for them.

It feels true, and they have, they have a reason to begin with, even if it's not your reason. And, and many people would agree that it doesn't sound, rational or something, it's okay because that's their experience of it. Like kindness and love, approaching it with kindness and love will always win, and it will always get you.

I can't, I can't say I'm saying always, but I, I can't think of a situation where love and kindness doesn't get you to where you ultimately want to be. If your perspective is from like the evolved, at peace version of you. Does that make sense? So yeah. I mean the rule for me, I was about to say rule of thumb and you know, I hate that saying because of its origin, but the rule for me is if it's a possibility, I was just talking about my client.

I don't know if I brought her up a second ago or not. Oh. And I meant there's a bunch I didn't say today. Um, but if there's a possibility, like she was so fearful of going over to her adult son's house. She was so freaked out about any sort of confrontation. They haven't seen each other for two years.

Two years. almost to the day at his request, and she's actually alienated, there was somebody that was, the other parent was standing in between, has been standing in between. And um, there's of coercive control going on. She's so fearful of her son throwing out accusations to her like, you lied because she cheated.

And she was the one that if you're looking at it from the outside in, she's the one that broke the family apart. what I offered to her was that even if, I don't think he's gonna say this on your first time over there, but if he does, even if he does, what part of that is true? Like take accountability for your side of things.

Find even in a parallel universe where you could have a sliver. It could be a sliver of truth about you, like you're a liar. And what I would say is, I am sure I have lagged before. Can you tell me Because you're not denying their experience. Their accusation. Even you are not saying, you're right, I'm a liar because nobody's ever fully a liar.

You're saying,  I probably have lied before. Can you be more specific?  Because then you're getting to the root of things, but you're also not resisting them, which is going to blow up. It's not gonna give you the result you want.   📍 📍 Find the truth in whatever accusation is being thrown at you.  You're a bitch. I can definitely be a bitch.

What do you mean? Tell me more. But I'm sure that there's truth to that.  There's always ways that you can find truth and that will, like pull the air, like the tense idiot out of the situation, okay? Always find a way that you can take some without, , blaming, chastising yourself, taking responsibility for everything.

You don't have to take. Yeah. Anyway, I'll shut up. You know what I'm saying?   📍 📍 📍 📍 number four is how does my body respond? This is a question that you post to yourself. How does my body respond? Like physically inside, when I tentatively say, I think this is more alienation, or I think this is more estrangement, or, it's both.

Right? What feels for you a little bit more spacious? Even if it hurts, right? Even just a tiny bit more spacious there, as you explore these, notice if you tighten, go numb or feel waves of shame, you can always pause pacing. This work is entirely acceptable, and in fact, I encourage it. 

You don't have to do it all at once. And just Swallow it all whole and own up to all this stuff or feel like you need to put a label on you. It's not about that. It's your next steps. where did this come from? to begin with, if you are unsure, I mean, I could've said this in the beginning, and called it a day, but if you are unsure of where all of this is coming from and there has not been somebody else stepping in the way, then it sounds like they've gone on no contact.

I would could assume here, uh, not a hard and fast, but nobody's stepping in the way they've gone no contact and you feel like you're at a loss. They've provided no explanation. You can probably assume that it was their decision independent decision to go no contact. Okay? And that doesn't mean that you don't reach out, but you do it. if they're setting boundaries, if they're adult, anyway, and they're setting quote unquote boundaries. A lot of people, I will say this, people will say that they're using boundaries and oh, and they're crossing my boundaries. They're not respecting my boundaries when it comes to parent child, the child cutting off parent.

Um, a lot of times this is about control. You know, and them wanting to control anybody who does this. It's not just the kids, anybody. They learned it from somewhere, but like, um, that, that you're not respecting my boundaries. What you're really saying is, is whoever's saying that is like, you're not doing what I want you to do.

You're not following my instructions to you. And if they're adult people can do whatever the fuck they want. Excuse my language. But it's true, the boundary is if they're saying something to you, they're asking you to, to, to not, um, you know, call a million times or show up at their house or their work or whatever.

And if you are still doing it, that is I think, where it's a foundry being crossed. If they're adult.

I'm gonna leave it at that I think now, I have done, uh, episodes on boundaries, but I'm gonna leave it there right now.

I actually just lost my, there was a reason why I started that last little spiel, whatever I was saying right there and now I forgot. It's probably because I've been so emotionally, elsewhere with my baby boy buddy here. But anyway, um, I'm just going to, I'm gonna let it go. I'm gonna give you my closing, is that you're not required to pick any certain perfect label today.

Sometimes you need a working title, For your experience that you may just adjust later. We all need that. Sometimes we just need something, some way to create certainty like, oh, right now I believe it's this, right? That I am alienated or estranged or a mix, just like I said, a working title to so that you can start your work and then more will be revealed when you start going through the steps or more information comes to you.

That's when you can adjust if you need to. No matter what you are, no matter if you're alienated, you're estranged or you believe that you also played, there was a, you had a hand in it, you have a, you're holding on to a lot of regret maybe. Um, no matter where you land in this, you're a loving human that deserves compassion and care consideration you deserve to be loved and forgiven and all the things. anything that you've done is never so bad that there's no way out, there's always a way out. So it just may not happen in the, exact way timing or steps that you have in mind or want wish to happen, that's why I really encourage you to stay open to whatever's happening on the other side and really, truly work on your experience, your, your responsibility in whatever's going on for you. Okay? So if this stirred things up for you, you know, your homework might be just simply to have a big glass of water Go take a hot bath and just remind yourself that you're

Self-Compassion Practice and Next Steps

doing the best you can.

  📍 📍 And you always have no matter what choices that you made or didn't make, you know you've always been doing the best that you could with the information that you had at the time. That was true before and is true today.  during a really painful, excruciating, extremely painful situation.  📍 📍

📍 so give yourself some, compassion boop yourself on the nose in the mirror. I tell my clients to do that all the time. The best way you, that you can build a loving relationship with yourself is to not only bring humor in real, true playful love. But every time you walk past a mirror, it does do wonders to look yourself in the eye wink wink at yourself.

Tell yourself you're sexy or whatever compliment you wanna give yourself and boop yourself on the nose. and do that. As often as you pass a mirror throughout the day, it will change your view of who you are in your role in the world, and with all of your relationships and with your kiddos, um, and with yourself, most importantly. 

Um, so if you feel tr uh, ready, choose one step that feels supportive, not punishing, okay? Choose steps for you that feel very supportive and, um, Loving, you know, so this might be journaling with the prompts that I gave you, right? Booking a therapy or coaching session, a clarity call with me, or simply naming out loud too. Today, I'm willing to see my story a little bit more clearly. I want to approach my healing and my relationships, all of them, starting with myself with openness and a desire to find and own my truth, okay? And to hear others without defense. Allowing all the truths to be okay and you don't need to change anything. So, and also lastly, if you want some more support sort, untangling whether you are alienated, estr, or a mix of both, somewhere in between.

And how to care for your mental health. More importantly, how to care for your mental health and emotional wellbeing. Inside of that, please know that you are always welcome to, uh, schedule a clarity call with me. Your first appointment is on me. It's free. Okay? Um, and I will always hold a clean space for you and all the complexities of your situation, even if that's the only call, I can always help you to find some relief from what's going on Some more clarity, and direction. All right? So that's what I got. I gotta take care of this puppy dog here.

Um, I'll talk to y'all later. Bye.